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On 05/06/2014 13:50, Markos Chandras wrote: |
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> On 05/06/2014 09:10 AM, Joshua Kinard wrote: |
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>> On 05/06/2014 03:07, Markos Chandras wrote: |
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>>> @kumba: You mentioned too many times that I wanted to "drop" support for |
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>>> mips3 and mips4. I never said that (I am sort-of tired keep repeating |
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>>> that). All I said (again) was to reduce the frequency or stop building |
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>>> them at all. Users can still get an existing mips3/mips4 stage3 and |
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>>> update themselves |
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>> |
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>> Maybe it's just my way of interpretation, but in your opening paragraph, |
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>> even though you said we wouldn't drop support, you did suggest not creating |
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>> new stages for mips1-mips4. |
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>> |
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>> Given a sufficiently long-enough time, that effectively drops support due to |
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>> bitrot. Like I mentioned w/ the 2009-era userland on this Octane, I am not |
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>> going to even try to update that, simply due to the amount of time it would |
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>> take, even if I figure the IRQ prioritization bugs out. |
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>> |
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>> So, my apologies if I read it wrong, but that's just how I see it. |
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>> |
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>> |
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>>> (picking up a random thread) |
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>>> |
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>>> Ok thanks for the replies. |
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>>> |
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>>> Ok I think it's safe to proceed with the following: |
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>>> - Stop mips1 builds (we don't have mips2) |
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>> |
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>> I'll defer to Matt to chime in to my last message and correct me anymore, if |
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>> needed, but, I think we'll want to keep either a mips1 or a mips2, but not |
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>> both. As well as decide whether it's a full stage3 or just a simple |
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>> stage1/stage2 tarball so people have a base from which to start a port to a |
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>> new MIPS machine if needed. That can get updated once a year, especially if |
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>> it's a stage1 which shouldn't take long at all. |
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> |
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> I see no value for mips1 or mips2 so feel free to pick these up. Even if |
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> someone is using them as bootstrap, then *any* mips1 stage3 would do. |
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|
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WFM. |
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|
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|
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>>> - Reduce the frequency to once-a-year for mips3 and mips4. Updating |
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>>> these stages every year with catalyst will be a lot of fun ;) |
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>> |
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>> NAK, At least once every 6 months, and preferably shortly after the .1 |
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>> release of a new major gcc rev, given gcc's absurd compile time now. Gentoo |
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>> moves fast, and a lot can change in a year. |
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> |
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> Forgive me but this almost sounds like an order :) This is not going to |
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> happen, sorry :) I don't want to become a build robot and spend all my |
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> Gentoo/MIPS time doing stages. With the introduction of new ISAs, the |
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> total number of stages will grow even more, and like i explained |
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> multiple times, this does not scale. There are other parts of the |
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> architecture that needs some love too and right now I have no time for both. |
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|
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It's not an order, sorry. Just a preference to avoid long compile times. |
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If you have a stage3 built against gcc-4.8.x, and 4.9.x becomes stable, |
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someone installing will have to compile 4.9, then rebuild everything to gain |
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the enhancements 4.9 will bring. If a new stage3 is built after the .1 |
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release of a new major rev (so that we avoid major bugs in the .0 release), |
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that should mitigate that problem. |
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|
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|
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> And you haven't really convinced me why mips4 is desired, when mips3 can |
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> run just fine on mips4 hardware. I think you need to be realist, and |
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> take into consideration, not just your personal needs, but also the time |
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> it actually takes to build and maintain all these stages. I explained |
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> that so many times already, I am not going to do that again. |
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> As Anthony said, mipsel3 is used by lemote, so keeping it alive is |
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> probably a good thing (though the newer hardware is mips64 capable) |
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|
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Well, to me, mips3 != mipsel3. Sorry about that. When I say mips3/mips4 |
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(lowercase), I usually refer to big-endian. If I capitalize the ISA, i.e., |
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MIPS-III or MIPS-IV, then I'm referring to the entire ISA, regardless of |
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endianness. |
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|
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So, to re-clarify my original statement, for big-endian SGI systems, we |
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probably only need mips4 and I guess the mips4_r10 stages. I don't know if |
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any of our users still have or run R4x00 mips3 big-endian equipment. If so, |
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well, I can do that too, then. It's just a higher electric bill :) |
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|
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And it's not really my personal preference. Based on my understanding of |
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what we currently support, that's what makes sense to me. I know you work |
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on MIPS stuff for your day job, but it's a hobby for me, so I have to |
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prioritize things a bit differently. That said, I've done catalyst runs |
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before, so I know how time-consuming they can be, especially if the build |
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breaks somewhere in the middle of a long compile. |
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|
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I think what we need to do is instead of having just one person like you or |
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Matt do all of the stage building, separate out the ISAs/ABIs/etc to the |
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people that actually care most about it. Anthony works with the mipsel3 |
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Lemote hardware, so if he wants, he can take care of mipsel3 stages; I'll |
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handle the SGI stuff since I know a lot about those machines; and you can |
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cover whichever of the newer ISAs matter most to you. |
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|
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Sound reasonable? We can even work out a set timetable for stage building, |
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or just release individual stages on an as-needed basis. |
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|
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|
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>> Otherwise, just e-mail me your mips3/mips4/mips4_r10 spec files, any custom |
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>> tweaks/changes to catalyst, and any specific instructions you do |
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>> before/during/after a catalyst build and I'll put the O2 to work if needed. |
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>> |
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> |
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> There is nothing special about my spec files and I do nothing special in |
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> catalyst so feel free to pick up the mips3 and mips4 stages. If you are |
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> having troubles with catalyst email the gentoo-catalyst@ ML. That might |
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> actually be a good way for you to become active again ;) |
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|
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Back in the past, I had to tweak catalyst sometimes to get it to do stage |
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builds properly. A lot of those bugs have probably been fixed by now, at |
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least for stage1-3. The livecd stages and netboots, however, were much more |
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problematic. |
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|
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If you can still send me at least one of your stage3 spec files, that'd be |
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appreciated. It's been 5-6 years since I last messed with catalyst. The |
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Octane was my build platform, but combined with the bitrot that prevented it |
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from booting, moving, a new job, etc, I never got around to setting up stage |
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building on the O2. Now that I can boot Octane again, I can at least |
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recover my old spec files, though. Might help if I ever attempt to tackle |
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the livecd or netboot builds again. |
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|
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-- |
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Joshua Kinard |
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Gentoo/MIPS |
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kumba@g.o |
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4096R/D25D95E3 2011-03-28 |
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|
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"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And |
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our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between." |
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|
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--Emperor Turhan, Centauri Republic |