Gentoo Archives: gentoo-desktop

From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@×××.net>
To: gentoo-desktop@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-desktop] Interest inquery: kde4-nosemantic overlay
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 17:33:00
Message-Id: pan$7d03c$74f487df$3b5cb22e$
1 For kde-4.11, it seems the gentoo/kde project has decided to hard-enable
2 the former semantic-desktop USE flag, forcing the option on and forcing a
3 number of formerly optional additional dependencies.[1]
5 But, I spent quite some time here switching away from kdepim's kmail,
6 akregator, etc, so I could kill akonadi on my system, and with it
7 semantic-desktop, etc, and I'm in no mood to have it hard-enabled now.
8 If it comes to it, I'd rather dump the kde desktop and switch to something
9 else[2], than have semantic-desktop on my system once again.
11 But with a bit of luck, I won't have to switch away from kde after all.
13 I already asked gentoo/kde to reconsider, given that they've supported
14 USE=-semantic-desktop until now and with 4.11 much of kde4's going into
15 maintenance mode as the upstream developer focus switches to kde5/kde-
16 frameworks, so it makes little sense to drop support for -semantic-
17 desktop now, when upstream is continuing to offer that option at least
18 thru kde4, and kde5/frameworks is supposed to be far more modular, so with
19 luck will allow users to pick and choose whether they want the
20 semantic-desktop components pulled in or not. However, given the gentoo/
21 kde project history with dropping kde3 support and forcing kde3 users to
22 to the user-supported kde-sunset overlay even while kde4 was still not
23 ready for use (and despite upstream kde's broken promise to support kde3
24 as long as there continued to be users), I'm not optimistic, but it was
25 worth a shot.
27 But the kde-sunset overlay does suggest another alternative, a kde4-
28 nosemantic overlay.
30 Meanwhile, as I upgraded to the kde-4.11 pre-releases (currently 4.10.90
31 aka 4.11-beta2) in the kde overlay, for the kde-desktop-core and other
32 gentoo/kde packages I still run, I diffed the ebuilds between 4.10.x and
33 4.10.80 (aka 4.11-beta1), then checked the diffs for non-semantic-desktop
34 related changes and kept them, while changing the semantic-desktop force-
35 enabling changes to force-disabling instead.
37 Then I created a framework that works much like epatch_user, except
38 instead of automatically applying patches to upstream sources, it
39 automatically applies patches to gentoo ebuilds and instead of using the
40 /etc/portage/patches/ tree, it uses /etc/portage/patches.ebuild/.
42 So now I have a set of ebuild patches that patch the kde 4.11 ebuilds
43 (starting with 4.10.80, aka 4.11-beta1) to force-disable semantic-
44 desktop, instead of force-enabling it. And I have a scripted framework
45 that auto-applies these patches to new ebuilds on emerge --sync and layman
46 -S, thus keeping no-semantic around as upstream gentoo/kde updates their
47 ebuilds.
49 For now, therefore, I'm fine, up and running on 4.10.90 (aka 4.11-beta2),
50 using gentoo/kde ebuilds auto-patched to kill the now forced-on semantic-
51 desktop, forcing it off instead.
53 But realistically, I honestly don't know if longer term, I'll be able to
54 continue maintenance of all of this by myself. Chances are unfortunately
55 high that without help from others, over time I'll decide it's simply too
56 much of a hassle maintaining the patches, and will end up switching to
57 some other desktop, with the qt-based razor-qt desktop one candidate as
58 sort of a kde-lite desktop, and enlightenment as another, getting away
59 from kde and qt entirely.
61 Besides which, if I'm finding kde-nosemantic useful enough to go to all
62 this trouble, there's a good chance that others will be interested in it
63 themselves, especially if they don't have to do all the work I'm now doing
64 myself, themselves. So with kde-sunset in mind as precedent, I'm now
65 proposing a kde-nosemantic overlay, like kde-sunset, user-maintained, but
66 for kde4 folks who want a continued no-semantic choice, instead of kde3
67 users.
69 Any interest?
71 To be further discussed: Assuming a go-ahead on the general idea, do we
72 want to maintain it as a normal overlay carrying at least the kde4 ebuilds
73 that require patching to kill semantic-desktop, or should we simply build
74 on the epatch_ebuild_user scripts I have hacked up, presumably checking
75 them into a git repo along with the patches themselves somewhere and
76 making that available, then simply use that tool with the existing gentoo
77 tree (when 4.11 is released and ebuilds arrive in the main tree) and kde
78 project overlay to apply the patches to the existing tree and overlay
79 instead of creating a full-fledged kde-nosemantic overlay ourselves. Of
80 course the tools and patches could then have ebuilds and appear in an
81 overlay of their own, rather than having the modified kde-nosemantic
82 ebuilds in an overlay.
84 One bonus to the tools overlay instead of a direct kde-nosemantic overlay
85 approach, is that gentooers not interested in kde, but interested in the
86 ebuild-patch tools, might find that useful, add that overlay to their
87 layman overlay list, and contribute patches to the ebuild-patches tool,
88 helping it mature and grow into a general purpose automated-ebuild-
89 patching tool rather faster than it might otherwise happen.
91 A hybrid alternative would be to adopt an idea much like the existing kde
92 overlay, where there's a documentation or tools directory that carries
93 them, in addition to the kde-base category and etc, carrying the patched
94 ebuilds themselves.
96 So what do people think? Any interest? How should we go about it?
98 Or should I just continue working on it on my own, with the likelihood
99 that at some point I'll decide it's not worth the trouble and switch to a
100 non-kde desktop, as I've switched to other non-kde tools as the kde
101 versions jumped the shark over the course of kde4?
103 In particular, I expect users who are or have been active in the kde-
104 sunset overlay will have some useful insights.
106 ---
107 [1] Andreas Huttel, aka gentoo dev dilfridge, covered this on his blog
108 (which is in turn covered by planet-gentoo, where I subscribe to the feed,
109 thus seeing it there):
113 [2] While during the early kde4 fiasco I was mostly standardized on kde
114 apps and therefore had little choice, over the course of kde4, I've
115 switched away from kde apps for first one thing than another, so by now
116 it's mostly the core kde4 desktop I depend on, plus a few other less vital
117 apps, games, dolphin, gwenview, superkaramba, that I could leave behind
118 far more easily now, if I decided I could no longer run the kde-
119 core-desktop.
121 --
122 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
123 "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
124 and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-desktop] Interest inquery: kde4-nosemantic overlay Ian Whyman <thev00d00@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-desktop] Interest inquery: kde4-nosemantic overlay Alex Alexander <wired@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-desktop] Interest inquery: kde4-nosemantic overlay Dominique Michel <dominique.michel@××××××.ch>
[gentoo-desktop] kde-lean ;) "Steven J. Long" <slong@××××××××××××××××××.uk>
[gentoo-desktop] Re: Interest inquery: kde4-nosemantic overlay Michael Palimaka <kensington@g.o>