Re: [gentoo-dev] When will KDE 3.5 be marked as stable?

[Stephen P. Becker]

Kari Hazzard wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:35 am, Stephen P. Becker wrote:
>> I hate to break it to you, but there really is no such place for such
>> queries.  We generally consider it rude when users whine about stable
>> keywording.  Therefore, I don't feel bad about a short response.
>
> If questions on a particular topic get asked frequently, and indeed they
> do, maybe there should be an official place to ask them. Saying
> something along the lines of "this is the wrong place to ask, there is
> no right place, so don't ask at all" to a customer would get any
> employee of any business fired or given a stern warning instantly. It
> doesn't matter if the person is customer support, a clerk, a developer,
> management or whatever. It's unbecoming and does not promote a positive
> image.

If we had an official place where people could complain about ebuilds
not being stabilized, then I have a feeling most developers would avoid
it like the plague.  Stuff like this is along the same lines as the
"bump it!!!eleventy-one11!11" bugs which get filed the minute there is a
new release of some program.  We tend to hate that, and there isn't much
that could be done other than closing them with prejudice.


>> Not really, I can only do what I do because I read stuff.  Anybody
>> else can easily do the same.
>
> That makes the assumption everyone has the same amount of knowledge you
> did when you started using Gentoo.
>
> I don't know C#, for example. As a result, any attempt to program with
> Mono would be futile and result in failure.

So?  The only language which I know is fortran, and then I always have
to look at my fortran references when I want to write a new program.
Otherwise, I know just enough about bash syntax to get around ebuilds,
and even then I always look at other ebuilds or references for examples
when I need to do anything.  The point here is that anybody with any
sort of training in some sort of computer related field probably knows a
hell of a lot more than me by default.  Yet, I'm perfectly capable of
doing Gentoo development by RTFM.


>> I would like to point out that it was you who flamed me for apparently
>> saying RTFM, when in fact if you read my original email, I did nothing
>> of the sort.
>
> You gave a logical RTFM. You're being literal with words when the
> meaning of what you said should be fairly clear. You didn't want to
> answer the question, so you flamed the person who asked instead of
> answering or defering to a more helpful individual.

Not really.  I should have actually pointed out that there is no (good)
place for such queries originally, but I was doing about 10 things at
once, and just sent the typical "don't send offtopic stuff to the
gentoo-dev list" reply.  Look back through the archives...this is pretty
standard.


>> I merely pointed out what should have been clear to anyone
>> that signed up for this list, that it is not for whining about arch
>> keywording.
>
> Not everyone is like you. There are all sorts of different people out
> there who process information in a lot of different ways. Without a
> stated correct place for asking questions about keywording, it wouldn't
> be hard to rationalise that the proper place is the dev mailing list.

Except that it isn't the proper place.  It is for discussion of
technical matters concerning the development of Gentoo.  The closest
place that might be sort of on-topic is the gentoo-desktop list, but I
generally don't recommend that list because it seems like nobody bothers
to answer questions there for the most part.  I think the problem is
that the RightPeople(TM) (meaning all the members of the teams for each
desktop herd) probably aren't subscribed there.


> You say it should be obvious like it's fact. Not everything is obvious
> to everyone--Not everyone is a Steve or Stephanie. They may interpret
> conveyed information in different ways and the ambiguity does not help
> at all.

It should be obvious to anybody who bothered to read the description for
this mailing list before signing up.  I can't fix ignorance.


> There's a reason devs rarely answer questions. Devs should do what they
> do best, code and fix problems according to SE principles. If you really
> want to answer questions, go ahead, but if you don't want to be helpful,
> don't say anything. Someone else who does want to will chime in with a
> helpful response.

My reponse was helpful.  I guarantee you (unless that person is really
dense) that they won't use this list to complain about stable keywording
again.  Furthermore, any currently subscribed list user who didn't know
before will certainly know now.


>> Sounds like you had an agenda to bitch about and found my
>> email to be convenient.  In other words, you have no point.
>>
>> -Steve
>
> I do have an agenda. I won't deny that. I think the Gentoo philosophy is
> essentially perfect, both as a development philosophy and also as an
> operational philosophy. When I see a dev who violates this philosophy
> with the way they behave, I am inclined to call them on it.
> Kari Hazzard

I'm sorry that everyone doesn't conform to your perfect utopian view of
the world.

Now, seeing that this thread itself has become terribly off-topic, this
will be the last thing I will say on the subject.

-Steve
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