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On Sun, 3 May 2009 18:51:59 -0400 |
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Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@×××.net> wrote: |
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|
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> Peter Faraday Weller <welp@g.o> posted |
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> 1241385973.4028.67.camel@×××××××××.localdomain, excerpted below, on Sun, |
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> 03 May 2009 22:26:13 +0100: |
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> |
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> > On a more serious note, the problem seems to be the complete lack of |
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> > management in the required places, Gentoo is fast becoming (or more |
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> > likely, already is) an anarchic organisation, where it's becoming |
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> > nigh-on impossible to keep track of things. |
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> > |
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> > I see a number of issues with Gentoo these days. The lack of a proper |
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> > leadership body. Lack of people working together in unison. The tree |
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> > needs to be sorted out: we have >16000 packages, and 200-250 developers, |
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> > not all of which are ebuild developers) - We're still using CVS, we do |
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> > *not* have the manpower to keep all the packages updated properly using |
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> > a centralised VCS. If these issues were fixed, I don't know/care how |
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> > they do get fixed, but if they were, I might consider coming back. |
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> |
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> FWIW, from my perspective, Gentoo has turned the corner, we've hit the |
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> low point (which I'd put at when the foundation dissolved due to malaise) |
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> and things are beginning to improve now. Certainly there's a lot of work |
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> remaining to be done and nobody's perfect, but I really do see positive |
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> changes this last year or so. |
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> |
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|
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For what it's worth (probably not much) I think Foundation is |
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functioning now. At least, we are legal again, have bylaws, and a real |
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bank account. |
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|
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> The council is actually somewhat functional now again, no more multi-hour |
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> meetings that get little if anything accomplished. Gentoo worked thru |
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> the foundation and council crises. I don't do IRC so can't evaluate it, |
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> but certainly, the lists have gotten rather more professional the last |
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> while -- no more severe personal attacks, and when it starts heading that |
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> way, often both sides get warnings to "stop it" and people do (tho this |
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> of course doesn't mean there's not disagreements, only that they're kept |
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> to something approaching a reasonable professional level). |
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> |
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> Yes, Gentoo is still using CVS, but there are moves toward something |
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> else, with GIT seemingly the lead candidate. While I don't see it |
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> getting to that point in the remaining bit of the current council term, I |
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> hope that it's a major item on the agenda for the next council to deal |
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> with. The overlay structure seems to be quite active and is continuing |
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> toward better overall integration, with issues like overlay and eclass |
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> priority and sharing being worked out. |
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> |
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> Now Gentoo does seem to be at that "magic" 250-ish person mid-size |
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> organizational cap, has been there for some time, and hasn't seemed to |
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> get past it. OTOH, few organizations do tend to get past that, Debian |
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> being the commonly mentioned FLOSS community exception, so Gentoo isn't |
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> alone in that regard. In fact, there's many organizations that would |
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> LOVE to be dealing with that problem as long as Gentoo has been. Maybe |
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> we'll ultimately get past it, maybe we won't and we'll just have to learn |
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> to manage at the 250-ish size we are. |
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> |
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> Perhaps the biggest mark of improvement for me personally has been that |
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> (as I recently hinted in a post to the docs list) I'm actually thinking |
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> about becoming a dev again. For some months, I had lost the motivation |
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> and reasons I might wish to do so, but now it's back. I'm certainly |
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> grateful for the folks that stuck around thru the bottom, and yes, that |
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> IS a marked improvement I'm glad to see. =:^) |
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> |
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> So anyway, we seem to disagree on what's happening with Gentoo, but I |
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> really do see improvement, and think it's a shame to have people leaving |
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> for the lack of it, just as things from my perspective seem to be turning |
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> around. But, regardless of whether you choose to stay or go, and that's |
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> of course a decision you must make (recognizing that people do sometimes |
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> need a time away, ideally to return refreshed and revitalized, ready to |
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> take on new challenges), you did say you may be back if you see that some |
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> of these issues have been addressed. Based on that, if indeed the |
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> changes I am beginning to see continue, plan on that return, 'cause those |
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> changes are coming. =:^) |
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> |
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> -- |
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> Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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> "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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> and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |
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> |
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> |
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|
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Regards, |
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Probably should not have responded, |
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Ferris |
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-- |
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Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@g.o> |
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Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees) |