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Hi Stuart, |
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>You might want to have a look at running your own (internal) rsync mirror for |
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>your Gentoo boxes - and your own (internal) distfiles mirror too. This gives |
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>you complete control over what ebuilds your many Gentoo machines will get, |
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>and ensures that you can roll out software long after it has been removed |
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>from Gentoo's portage (we delete 'old' files all the time, when we believe |
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>they're obsolete, which really screws up consistency across a large |
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>deployment. However, with your own internal mirror, you can keep these |
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>ebuilds and their distfiles around long after Gentoo has dropped them!) |
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> |
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|
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Having your own rsync mirror is only really like having a single extra |
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'tag'... although it does address the issue of ebuilds that disappear. |
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(so does /usr/local/portage) |
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The other deficiency with running your own rsyncmirror is just that it's |
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effectively a private 'fork' - that pushes lots of the maintenance |
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issues back into your own lap. A primary benefit of using any 'distro' |
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is that a bigger team is keeping an eye on all the changes going on. |
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With a commercially backed distro like RedHat you are hoping that they |
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have the financial resources to keep on supporting that distro and |
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creating RPMS to match the old releases. You also have a defined |
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statement about how long a particular old release is supported. |
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|
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Personally, I prefer the open source community approach for real |
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guarantees that support will continue -even if I need to do a little bit |
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of it myself on behalf of the community - and this is a different issue |
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from the idea of supporting 'tags' against the emerge sync. The |
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community (collectively) has more resources than any individual or company. |
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|
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You are also right that removing 'old' files from portage is an issue... |
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in fact probably a show stopper in some instances. Perhaps the solution |
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is to look at it as if the portage tree is under CVS control. That would |
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make the unstable "~arch" stuff associated with the HEAD of the tree. |
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You would need a label to identify the equivelant of the 'stable' |
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branch. Other labels would represent the 'tag's available for using |
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with emerge sync. |
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In this style of setup, old ebuilds are not 'deleted' - just removed |
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from the stable and HEAD parts of the tree. IE. They still exists within |
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the 'tag' that represents the historical development of gentoo. They are |
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no longer maintained, but are still part of an 'old release' (or tag) |
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(I'm really thinking of it more in terms of a Clearcase style version |
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control file system where a user has a 'view' of the files at a |
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particular point in time on a particular branch of development - maybe |
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use http://www.gnu.org/directory/sysadmin/vc/cvsfs.html ???) |
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|
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The associated space and bandwidth issues for mirror sites can be |
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addressed by only mirroring the HEAD and 'stable' parts - this is the |
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same as the current level. |
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|
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|
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It then becomes easy to implement a policy for support of 'back |
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releases' - you could just choose something like - "gentoo maintains |
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four years worth of tagged versions." Not only that, if any company |
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wants to have a longer timeframe supported, then they only need to offer |
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disk space and bandwidth support to achieve this - or THEN run their own |
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rsync mirror. |
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Since gentoo is a source level distro, many of the hassles that RedHat, |
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Mandrake etc have making RPMS for old releases dont apply. |
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|
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I'm NOT implying developer support for 'old' ebuilds - but if package |
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'xzy' used to be available with Gentoo in Aug2002, it should still be |
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available when you are building a system at that version level. This |
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would also mean that if someone really must have it supported - then |
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they can do it themselves and get it moved back into the main branch. If |
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this 'tag' idea makes it attactive for companies to use Gentoo, then I |
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would expect an explosion in the number of active (company paid) |
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developers maintaining the ebuilds of little programs that the core team |
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could not justify supporting. |
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|
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|
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Another thing that running your own rsync mirror can never achieve is |
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third party vendor certification. Having defined 'tags' would allow |
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companies like Oracle to certify a particular version of Gentoo as being |
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supported. Thats not currently possible. The very power and flexibility |
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that Gentoo gives developers is also totally incompatible with the major |
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software vendor QA techniques. Using a 'tag' would go a long way to |
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overcoming this. |
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It would become possible for people like SAP to certify their products |
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as supported with specific 'make.conf' settings for a specific tag. |
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Thats enough to make Gentoo fine for both the Quality Assured type large |
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deployment and yet still retain brilliant upgrade and security patch |
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capabilities. |
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|
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Cheers |
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Ron |
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|
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> |
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>Tbh, it's a hack, rather than a nice solid server/client enterprise-ready |
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>Portage solution, but it's one that does work. |
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> |
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>Best regards, |
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>Stu |
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> |
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> |
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-- |
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