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On 05/15/2013 03:41 PM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: |
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> Are we realizing that in order to keep systemd out of our way, we're |
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> currently writing and maintaining drop-in replacements for the |
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> features that systemd is already providing in an actively maintained |
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> state? openrc-settingsd was the first thing that we as Gentoo |
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> developers (Pacho?) had to write in order to merge GNOME 3.6 into our |
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> tree. |
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> And now that GNOME 3.8 is out, the game starts over again: logind is a |
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> hard requirement, logind is part of systemd, starting logind (which |
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> replaces consolekit) is not that trivial as you may think (and is the |
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> thing I started to work on anyway). |
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> And if this wasn't enough, it means that if you want GNOME 3.8, you |
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> need to get logind, which may or not may get included in our udev |
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> ebuild and if it won't, it means that you will be forced to use |
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> systemd as device manager if you want GNOME 3.8, which is believe it |
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> or not, the thing that Ubuntu did. |
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> The problem will only increase in size as the clock moves. |
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And given that the end-plan according to the guys is to kill the |
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distributions shall we just close Gentoo now? |
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> And (and!) how does all this fit together with eudev? If the idea is |
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> to either put logind in udev (thus, not creating a separate logind |
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> ebuild), it means that eudev is already a dead end for GNOME users, |
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> unless the eudev team is going to provide logind as well. |
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Are there specifications regarding logind ? Is that so incredibly |
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terrible write and maintain 1k loc? |
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> I don't want to start a flamewar here, I was the one who called |
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> Lennart software lennartware, but science is science, and a reality |
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> check had to be done: at some near point in the future, our users will |
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> be forced to replace udev/eudev with systemd. Like it. Or not. |
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Science is science, systemd doesn't work with anything but linux, Gentoo |
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in theory should care about not-linux. |
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> While I successfully use both openrc and systemd, I _do_ think that |
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> (and expect to see) more and more users (and developers) will be |
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> switching to systemd. |
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Surely sysadmins will be delighted about that. |
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> Is there anything we can do? Besides "being prepared", I don't think so. |
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> Do we control upstreams? No, sorry. |
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I'm upstream for some stuff, vlc was already really close to force-kill |
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pulseaudio because of some cute problems, the thing got otherwise fixed. |
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Upstream does what is most sensible for the users, usually. |
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Freebsd, openbsd and some other operating systems are still there, they |
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have their reasons and usually work better in those fields than other, |
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I'm sure some people would wish to kill them, not going to happen |
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anytime soon. |
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> So what do we want to do then? Isolate from the rest of the world? |
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The world is bigger than that and we were making bridges around, *why* |
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severing them because somebody else decided for you? |
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> (It's not a sarcastic question). I hope that everybody does their own |
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> reality check. |
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Did mine, other experienced the hard way what I said many times. |
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Gnome doesn't seem a good reason to leave in the cold people that do not |
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even care about it. |
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lu |
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