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On 09/29/14 07:14, Rich Freeman wrote: |
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> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 12:05 AM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto |
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> <jmbsvicetto@g.o> wrote: |
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>> No, there isn't a need for a Council vote here. This is something up to |
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>> Releng (in respect to what is in the stages) and to everyone in respect to |
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>> what is part of the system set. |
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> I don't think many really care about deferring to releng on what is in |
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> the stages. |
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> |
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> My concern is what is in @system, since that has a big impact on everybody. |
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|
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The original point and reasoning was about getting bc back into stage3. |
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The @system discussion came up secondarily because of the relationship |
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between the two. But note that, if the status quo remains (ie bc |
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doesn't belong in stage3) then there would be no issue about @system. |
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|
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> |
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>> I've stopped following this mailing list regularly quite sometime |
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>> ago. To see this thread is still going on and no one bothered to cc |
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>> releng, to me shows a lack of respect for the people actually doing |
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>> releases around here, as well as a real lack of interest in getting |
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>> this done as you can discuss this all you want, but in the end, it's |
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>> releng that works on this. |
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> Nobody is intending to show a lack of respect for anybody. The whole |
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> point of having a mailing list is so that you don't have to CC every |
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> single developer on every single thread. |
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> |
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> Nobody is required to read -dev, but as was pointed out recently, |
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> claiming that you don't read -dev isn't really a good starting point |
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> for a complaint that you've been left out of something. [1] |
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> |
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>> Further, to me, this is a case where if anyone tries to side-step Releng and |
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>> go over it with a Council decision, than the council members should be ready |
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>> to start doing Releng work. |
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>> |
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> So, do you have an opinion on this that you'd like to share? I think |
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> it makes more sense to discuss what the best path forward is rather |
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> than argue about who gets to make the decision. |
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> |
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> Believe it or not, the folks who are on the Council aren't really |
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> interested in micro-managing everything that goes on in Gentoo. |
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> However, as you pointed out, everybody is impacted by what is in the |
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> system set, and the way "everybody" in Gentoo decides on things is |
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> through the Council. The alternative is endless threads like this |
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> one. |
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|
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What's in stage3 also impacts "everybody". The point about |
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micro-managing is a judgment call about how large the impact. In my |
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judgment, adding bc to stage3 or keeping the status quo is not a big |
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enough issue that releng can't decide on their own. While anything may |
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come to the Council and be entertained by it (at the cost of time), it |
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would be my position to motion that the issue be pushed back to releng |
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for a decision. At that point the Council will effectively be deciding |
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whether or not they agree with me, namely, that this issue really |
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doesn't impact everyone sufficiently to be taken out of releng's hands. |
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It is important that the Council reflect the body's sensibilities about |
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what is significant and what isn't. If we start judging everything as |
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having a "significant impact" and taking it from the respective teams, |
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then we will be micro-managing despite our words to the contrary. |
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Jorge's response "than the council members should be ready to start |
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doing Releng work" would not be atypical if we start overstepping that |
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line. Although, I must say, Jorge's is being little premature here, and |
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I doubt the Council will act rashly. |
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|
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> |
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> No, the members of the Council aren't aware of every detail of |
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> everything that happens with Gentoo, and they don't possess every |
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> skill collectively possessed by every member of the community. About |
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> the only thing the Council can claim is that people voted for them to |
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> represent the community, so it functions best when we actually act |
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> like a community. |
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> |
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> [1] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20140408-summary.txt |
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> |
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> -- |
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> Rich |
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|
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|
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-- |
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Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. |
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Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] |
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E-Mail : blueness@g.o |
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GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA |
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GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA |