Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

[Peter Gordon]

On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 13:24 -0700, Mike Doty wrote:
> We're going to change the -dev mailing list from completely open to where only
> devs can post, but any dev could moderate a non-dev post.  devs who moderate in
>  bad posts will be subject to moderation themselves.  in addition the
> gentoo-project list will be created to take over what -dev frequently becomes.
>  there is no requirement to be on this new list.

> We're voting on this next council meeting so if you have input, now would be
> the time.

[ Long rant ahead, perhaps some of which may or may not quite as
accurate as intended since I've not been following Gentoo's development
as closely as I should have over the past few months. ]

Quite frankly, this (if passed) will be Gentoo's deathbed moment, and
this mail will be one of my last from an official Gentoo account.

For far too long the mailing lists, IRC channels, and other media of
developer communication have been ridden with belligerent,
inconsiderate, and often-accusatory postings. However, instead of
removing the few who cause most (if not all) of this damage to Gentoo,
we are further restricting its development.

I fail to see how such restriction will aide us in any way. We already
have the gentoo-core mailing list, and anything needing to be kept
internal to developer-only discussion should be sent there. Yes, stuff
is leaked from time to time, but Gentoo's developer handbook [1]
explicitly states that "gentoo-core is to be used for internal
discussions." Thus, those who leak information that is not to be made
public should be disciplined accordingly.

Instead, we (the entire developer community) simply continue to let
things of this nature occur, and persist in adding layers of bureaucracy
in order to pretend to ourselves that this is much less harmful to us
than it verily is.

Yes, that's what this amounts to: bureaucracy. We are simply adding more
process and protocol to the posting by non-developers. How can we say
that devs won't discard what may have otherwise been great discussions
of introspection or other aspects of our development? How can we ensure
that developers with personal vendettas [2] won't use this moderation
power as a form of attack against the developer in question or the
community as a whole? Wait, what's this: Oh I see. We discipline them.

What does this accomplish? It adds another point of reason for possible
disciplinary action at the expense of furthering development and
hindering discussion. 

As a moderator of Gentoo's forums for nearly two years (and a moderator
on a few other forums since about three years prior to this), I know
from experience that such moderation should be in terms of a blacklist -
whereby all posts and content are accepted and those which violate the
rules disciplined. Having a whitelist - where only permitted content is
accepted and others moderated in - is far too troublesome for this.
Aside from the issues I noted above, who's to say which posts are "good"
or "bad" in the first place? Who will ensure that posts are moderated in
a timely and reasonable manner? 

Gentoo's goal of being community-driven was in our reach once.. Nay, we
_were_ a community when I first started with Gentoo several years ago
now: users, developers, infrastructure hackers, designers - nearly
*everyone* was contributing back to the community in a way: mailing list
or forums support, bug reporting/triaging, ebuild submission, et al.

Now, where do we stand? That community has fallen so much that we need
another group (User Reps.) to act as an intermediary between them. More
and more people are interested in development of Gentoo. They _want_ to
help develop Gentoo or contribute to it in a significant way; yet all of
this is just one more item to preclude such people from their
contributions. Let me repeat that just to make it perfectly clear: WE
ARE PUSHING AWAY POTENTIAL STAFF. But I digress..

In effect, you (the devs) are now telling others (potential
contributors) what we can and cannot say on the list. While I understand
that nothing about Gentoo grants me a protected right to freedom of
speech or expression in any way, this reeks of heavy censorship to me.

I, for one, will personally stand against any such action on this list.
If it comes down to it, I will personally approve _any_ non-spam posting
to this list by _anyone_ for the sake of civil disobedience. I encourage
others to take similar action. This type of administration cannot be
allowed to establish itself as proper or "just" in any way.

[1] http://gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=1&chap=3
[2] Don't disagree with this outright: I know many, including myself,
have a strong mutual dislike with one or more developers from this and
other distributions though we may refrain from admittance thereto. It's
part of our human psyche and is a normal aspect of anyone's emotions
with regards to social interactions.
-- 
Peter Gordon (codergeek42)
Gentoo Forums Global Moderator
GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint:
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My Blog: http://thecodergeek.com/blog/