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On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 20:49 +0100, Grobian wrote: |
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> On 02-01-2006 20:03:54 +0100, Patrick Lauer wrote: |
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> > On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 12:50 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: |
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> > > I guess I'm almost hinting at that Gentoo needs a single entity that's |
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> > > sole purpose is to drive/research the direction and goals for Gentoo. |
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> Or call it proper hierarchy. Management. Probably all evil words, in |
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> this context, but they for sure apply. |
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Well ... it's like every dev has a special title - Gentoo/MIPS gcc senior integration specialist and stuff like that ;-) |
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Doesn't resolve the communication / hierarchy issues, but makes us all |
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feel warm and fuzzy inside. |
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(I know I'm a bit evil here, but ...) what I think is needed is more |
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communication. Not more "discussing", trolling, yelling etc. etc. but |
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general info. Quite some time ago I tried to get some info from all |
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subprojects what they had been doing - security and docs replied, then a |
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bit later I think Alt and Toolchain gave a short "we're not dead yet". |
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If all projectss could agree to deliver a "mission statement", progress |
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report or whatever you wish to call it every $TIMEUNIT (3 months? 6 |
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months?) it'd be really nice ... (and would make the GWN really exciting |
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*nudge nudge wink wink*) |
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|
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> If it isn't one person, then you would need to find two persons or even |
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> more that are completely aligned and have the same visions. Since |
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> leaders usually are charismatic and controversial where necessary to |
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> achieve their goals, it is hard to find two that don't get conflicts, |
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> stalling any vision to become a mission. |
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To extrapolate from that ... council etc. are incapable of doing "real work"? ;-) |
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Or in other words, a person is smart, people are dumb |
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|
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> > After all there is noone capable of forcing anyone to do anything as far |
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> > as I can tell - worst case you fork Gentoo (again) and don't resolve |
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> > the issues. |
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> |
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> ...or only resolve the ones that you care about. Your first sentence |
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> forms the basis of the problem, IMHO. |
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There are ways to get people to do what you want, but they are quite limited. |
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For example for QA reasons you can make people fix their ebuilds, but |
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that's about the limit of influence you can have right now. |
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|
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> Call it "bureaucrazy", or whatever you like. I think it has nothing |
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> to do with bureaucracy at all. It's just a matter of having |
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> communication on a high level, in order to get an overall view of |
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> Gentoo. IIRC this is one of the tasks of the council, to align teams |
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> somehow, for example. |
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I don't know if the council is the right group to get project progress |
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reports collected, but the point stands - communication is good :-) |
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|
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> > ... and you'd burn out a capable person within half a year I think |
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> |
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> Depends on the person. Lance is just putting a lot of Mintzberg and |
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> probably (work) experience on the table to apply it to Gentoo. |
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> But ok, fine, if that's the case, gives a nice refresh rate :) (j/k) |
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<troll> I say we put ciaran first to that job ... </troll> |
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|
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> > > Dunno, maybe I'm the loner here thinking this... |
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> |
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> Well, you're not alone for sure ;) However, the amount of measures to |
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> take, why and what are a bit of an open question to me. I do, however, |
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> share your concerns of a missing 'Mission Statement'. It is a commonly |
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> known problem and primary point of concern (ie. Heene). |
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I guess we should decide on a problem before solving it :-) |
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Is the problem the lack of a mission statement? I don't see the need for |
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that, we all have our own definitions what a Gentoo is and why it's |
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cool. Trying to get that defined will be really tricky (and I predict a |
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smallish flamewar) |
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|
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We already have a mission statement - to produce the best software |
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distribution, ever ;-) |
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Wether it should be Linux only, GNU-based or a metadistribution is a |
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rather touchy subject, so please try to keep the discussion |
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civilized ... |
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|
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wkr, |
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Patrick |
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-- |
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Stand still, and let the rest of the universe move |