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On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Kent Fredric <kentnl@g.o> wrote: |
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> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 10:11:51 -0500 |
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> R0b0t1 <r030t1@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> |
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>> Then I'm quite confused as to why people seem to be extremely attentive to |
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>> copyright infringement (besides an immediate payout). In the US they cite |
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>> the reasoning I gave, from memory. |
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>> |
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>> Maybe that was for trademarks? |
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> |
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> This is one of those problems where the nebulous term "IP" has infected |
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> our thinking. |
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> |
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> Yes, US is very *copyright* infringement zealous. |
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> |
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> But Trademark and Copyright are very different beasts. |
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> |
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> Trademarks (read: brands, company names, company symbols, etc) do |
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> expire much shorter, but that's due to other reasons. Namely, that if |
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> your company ceases to be doing business for 10 years, nobody is harmed |
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> by people using a name of a company that doesn't exist, because |
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> "Trademark protection" is largely a device to prevent competitors |
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> claiming they're you, and to prevent competitors selling products |
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> claiming you made them. |
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> |
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> Copyright (read: the right to publish, distribute, and sell) has a much |
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> longer life as the results of that can be inheritable, eg: profits from |
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> sale copyrighted works can go towards the estate of the author of those |
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> works after the death of that author. |
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> |
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> There are documented *exceptions* to this, but they don't apply to us |
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> as they apply to public institutions such as archives and libraries. |
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> |
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> And there are exceptions in cases of "fair use", which Gentoo does not |
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> fall under. |
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> |
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> So, even though it is true that copyright expires, copy right expiry |
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> dates are currently such that most juristictions don't have any |
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> software that could conceivably exist that expires. |
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> |
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> If the expiry period is 50 years, and there's no software in |
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> circulation older than 30, its kindof a moot point to argue software |
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> that is less than 10 years old might have expired. |
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> |
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|
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There's nothing in this though that says a copyright couldn't be |
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weakened by failure to enforce claims against infringers. However, it |
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happens that copyright law allows selective enforcement. |
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|
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>> >> Sir, please see my above comment about building ballistic missiles. |
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>> >> It may be important for the Gentoo Foundation to add a disclaimer |
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>> >> similar to the one I mentioned. I would hate for the Foundation or |
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>> >> any of its administrators or contributors to be found guilty of |
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>> >> aiding and abetting terrorists. |
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>> > |
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>> > Yeah. Stop trolling, please. |
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>> > |
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>> |
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>> I am being completely serious. You can find such a clause in the iTunes |
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>> license. |
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>> |
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>> If it seems ridiculous please reconsider the subject in question. |
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> |
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> I'm not sure how enforceable that clause is as a License. |
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> |
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> As a Warranty, sure. |
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> |
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|
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The point isn't to be practically enforceable. If someone put their |
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mind to using iTunes to make an ICBM I'm sure no one could stop them. |
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The point is that Apple has now disclaimed liability for terrorist |
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acts associated with iTunes in a very legally important way, which I |
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believe is related to export restrictions (the item of interest likely |
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being the cryptography portions of the digital restrictions management |
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code). |
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|
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> "if you use it for this, don't blame us if bad things happen, we told |
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> you not to" |
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> |
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|
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There's a myriad of laws that duplicate the intent of the basic laws |
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against property damage and taking life. |
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|
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> Also, those are typically things that fall under "National Laws" and it |
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> doesn't really make sense to have to explicitly articulate in a |
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> software license that its intended use is to be done within the scope |
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> of your local governing laws. |
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> |
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> You're bound to follow local law regardless of whether you accept or |
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> reject a given license. So, its kinda moot. |
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> |
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|
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It is my understanding that this realization supports the view that |
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the link should be left in. It's up to the user of the software, radio |
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broadcasting kit, car, etc, to use the item in a responsible manner. |
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|
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I am worried about ceding rights where it is not necessary to do so. A |
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good analogue to the situation at hand is crowdfunded electronics |
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projects that try to be FCC compliant, or delay shipping to obtain FCC |
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compliance. They don't need to. They're almost always a product not |
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intended for end users or an incomplete product. This makes me afraid, |
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sir, because it may be the case in the future I can not produce any |
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electronic equipment on my own. |
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|
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Likewise, being unable to tell someone where to download something is |
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another situation that makes me afraid. |
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|
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> If your government goes and uses your software for military |
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> applications despite your license saying "don't", I'm not really sure |
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> you'll have much in the way of recourse. |
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> |
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|
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I'm pretty sure it would be one of the rare times, at least in the US, |
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that the government does not have sovereign immunity. |
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|
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> If it was that simple I'd just start putting license terms that |
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> prohibits people from using software I wrote as part of a state |
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> approved mass surveillance platform.... |
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> |
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|
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If you did this the military would abide by your license. They'd just |
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hire someone else to write the software in your stead. |
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Personally, sir, I am glad that mass surveillance is happening. My |
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government tells me it is a good thing and that it protects me. My |
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government is made of good, hardworking, honest people. I have |
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conversed with some Gentoo users who have said that I should suspect |
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my government but I am not sure how to do that. In any case, the mass |
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surveillance programs are under the control of the military. The |
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military typically respects the law, and I would not mind it if they |
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used something that I had created. I would be proud that I was able to |
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help my country by helping the people who protect it. |
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|
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On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Ciaran McCreesh |
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<ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com> wrote: |
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> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 11:10:54 -0500 |
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> Gordon Pettey <petteyg359@×××××.com> wrote: |
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>> And this is all irrelevant since the copyright applies to the |
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>> software, not the location you obtain it from. Nobody commits |
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>> copyright infringement by buying a used book from their neighbour |
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>> instead of buying it at Half Price Books. |
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>> Distribution licenses are another thing, but if the original SRC_URI |
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>> from the ebuild wasn't RESTICT="fetch", what makes anybody think that |
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>> would suddenly change with a new SRC_URI? |
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> |
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> Are you a lawyer, and does this constitute legal advice? I ask, because |
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> the lawyers I've spoken to about a similar issue seemed to think it |
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> wasn't that simple. |
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> |
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|
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If normal people can not interpret the law, what good is it? Moreover |
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what morally or ethically consistent claim would anyone have against |
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me for breaking laws I do not understand and that may be impossible to |
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comprehend? |
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|
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Legality and morality are separate things, but most court systems like |
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to at least pretend they are based on some kind of system of moral |
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ethics. |
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|
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In any case it is my understanding that the issue is that simple. It's |
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the reason torrents and magnet links exist, and why there are no legal |
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claims possible against websites which host magnet links. |
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|
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|
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List, if I am wrong, please let me know. I do not mean to make a |
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nuisance of myself. I am simply not very smart, but I do want to see |
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Gentoo succeed as a project. |
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Respectfully, |
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R0b0t1 |