Re: [gentoo-dev] Enterprise Installer [was "LWE Aftermath" on -core]

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Fri, 2004-08-06 at 14:06, Joshua J. Berry wrote:
> - Automated setup and install (a la Solaris' Jumpstart).  This involves several
>   aspects, such as the creation of a custom profile, precompiling binaries,
>   automatic partitioning/formatting, automatic configuration, tying into
>   Catalyst to create an appropriate boot CD to run the install, ...

In most cases, a profile is not needed.  The profile only specifies the
"system" portion and default virtuals.  While I can see how some would
want it, I don't think it would be a requirement.  The pre-compiled
binaries are a must.  I could see this working in many ways, all of
which would need to be discussed.  A proper "rollout" tool would not
require a CD, so there would be no need to involve catalyst for such a
task, though there's no reason to not allow it.  I would instead see
catalyst taking the role of creating the binaries.  Installing new
machines would be carried out using industry standard methods, such as
PXE to boot an image that downloads from TFTP and loads up a NFS root
with an installer image.  The configuration would be decided before
install by the script, with possibly a final "setup" step after first
boot to complete a very small number of configuration options.

> - Configuration management across many machines ... how can one easily handle
>   changes to files in /etc, and propagate them to clients?

How does one do this in Red Hat?  SuSE?

Currently, there just isn't anybody really doing this well.  Having this
capability would definitely position Gentoo as a leader in the area of
workstation and server management.

> - Allow users to create and maintain a custom Portage tree (derived from our own
>   base tree) which they can use to administer their other machines.

This is too simple.  We already provide everything a user would want to
be able to do this.  Perhaps I am missing something.  Could you
enlighten us a bit more on this?

> - Probably something else I forgot. ;)

A stable portage tree for each release would be a requirement.

> While most of these are possible with shell scripts and the like, there are no
> official Gentoo tools to do this.  I think it would be great for Gentoo to
> create some, because I think this is one area in which we can really shine.

I agree.  At the same time, I realize that Gentoo is still very young,
and we have a long way to go and a lot of growing up to do.  The main
thing I notice about a lot of people is they want to take Gentoo and to
turn it into some huge enterprise solution, but they don't want to
invest the money nor manpower to do so.  Red Hat has capital.  They have
employees.  Every single one of us are volunteers, and honestly, until
that changes, there is no way we will ever be able to meet the needs of
the enterprise, simply because corporate customers will want things from
us that are not fun nor interesting, which means they will not be things
we will want to do.

I believe that to achieve these goals, we have to start by taking baby
steps.  Perhaps we should bring up some things at the next manager's
meeting?  To be honest, it looks like the first steps are going to be
the easiest, and at the same time the hardest.  We have to decide where
we want to go and lay out a plan.  The hardest part is we have to stick
to that plan and not falter.

> I should re-emphasize that there is quite a lot of demand for this, especially
> in mid to larger companies which have hundreds or thousands of machines that
> they'd like to put Gentoo on, but can't because the setup process is so
> involved.  I don't remember exactly how many people asked me about it at
> LinuxWorld, but enough did to make me remember. :)

There was a lot of demand for it at LWCE NYC, yet nothing really came
about from it.  I encourage anyone interested in the possibility of
growing up from a "hacker" distribution and into something the corporate
world respects to try to work together on this and make something
happen.

> So ... what are your thoughts on this?

We need to move on it, and not talk about it, then let the topic die off
and forget about it as has been going on for months now.

> On a related note, avenj did mention the Installer project to me, and gave me a
> link to their CVS, but it hasn't been touched in a few months.  Anyone know what
> their status is, and what specifically they're trying to accomplish?

I believe their charter was to create a nice installer that could be
used to install Gentoo in various fashion, using GRP as a base and
allowing for rapid deployment of servers and workstations based on
pre-defined criteria.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering QA Manager/Games Developer
Gentoo Linux

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