Re: [gentoo-dev] systemd team consensus?

[Tom Wijsman]

On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:29:16 -0500
William Hubbs <williamh@g.o> wrote:

> I am splitting this to a separate thread, because it could become a
> long thread pretty easily.
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 07:14:00AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Samuli Suominen
> > <ssuominen@g.o> wrote:
> > > I've been considering packaging systemd in sys-fs/udev with
> > > USE="systemd" and use of 'if' and 'else' plus creating
> > > virtual/systemd for proper / installation and some other minor,
> > > but bad design choices done in the systemd packaging
> >
> > What is the consensus of the systemd team regarding those choices?
> > Would it make more sense to just fix the packaging rather than
> > forking it?  I'm not sure what all the issues are, or how
> > widespread the disagreement is.
>
> I am a member of the systemd team, and I know what needs to be done. I
> have offered patches multiple times the last few months to fix the
> packaging, only to have them refused,

Why were they refused?

> even though I have presented,
> multiple times, strong recommendations from systemd upstream that I am
> correct, as well as making it clear that I would take responsibility
> for breakages the change would cause. Originally, we did install
> systemd correctly, but that was changed some time back,

Why was it changed?

> before I
> joined the team. All Samuli and I have asked is that the change we
> made that puts everything in /usr be undone.

Why is the change refused to be undone?

> Besides the udev team,
> this would have benefits for the gnome team.

Why would it benefit them?

> You may ask why I have offered patches instead of just fixing the
> ebuild since I am a team member. That is because even team members
> aren't allowed to touch bugs assigned to systemd@g.o [1],

Well, if there are conflicts within a team then I can agree that no
member is allowed to touch the bug without a collaborative decision;
but from what it appears this bug has been handed in a way that one
member appears to take all decisions and the other member has nothing
to say. In particular, comments 5 and 11 change the state of the bug
without giving any reasoning about why that change in state was made;
this is unacceptable, it gives us no reason to believe the state change.

For what reason did these specific state changes happen to this bug?

> my personal efforts to advocate for this specific change got me this
> comment as well [2]. This bug, and others like it, would never have
> come up if we were installing systemd the way upstream recommends.

Why was the / -> /usr change so necessary that it causes bugs like this?

> I'll keep this short for now unless others here want to see the rest
> of my evidence,

We do not only want to see evidence, but also the reasoning behind it;
from both sides, because otherwise there is nothing to discuss here.

> but What it boils down to is this. As a member of the
> systemd team, I have questioned the way we are doing things, multiple
> times. I feel that we aren't doing things in the best interest of the
> distro as a whole. However, consensus doesn't matter on that team; the
> members are expected to do exactly as they are told.

It begs for evidence, explanation and change.

> William
>
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472792#C11
> [2] https://bugs.gentoo.org/478538#C11

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@g.o
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