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On 2/8/16 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: |
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> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@g.o> wrote: |
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>> |
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>> what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo developer but i also work |
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>> on an upstream project (eudev) that 14 distros use. |
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>> |
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>> some of the criticism given here are my concerns as well and i've |
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>> spoken with the various distros --- slack, parted magic, puppy. they |
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>> get what's going on and they still see eudev is the best way forward |
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>> for now. it may not be in the future, but neither will a udev |
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>> extracted from a compiled full systemd codebase. |
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> |
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> How many of those 14 distros have more than 14 users? |
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may i forward that to them? i'm sure they'll appreciate your comment. |
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anyhow, your rhetorical question has speculation as its basis. do you |
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have numbers of users? as i write this, gentoo is number 44 in |
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distrowatch.com below slackware at 22 and puppy at 15. can you produce |
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reliable numbers? |
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gentoo is very unpopular as a distro. however, it excels as a meta |
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distro. if you marginalize its special features, you take away all its |
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charm. |
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> |
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> Look, I get it, some people don't like systemd. That's fine. |
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> However, you have to realize at this point that a non-systemd |
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> configuration is anything but mainstream. |
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neither is a system based on musl or uclibc, but if you need an embedded |
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system, then these are "mainstream". |
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similarly hardened is not "mainstream" and yet there are many companies |
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that depend on it. |
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the notion of "mainstream" is relative and you're taking a particular |
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vantage point. |
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anyhow, the argument in the subject is the order of udev and eudev in |
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the virtual, not systemd vs eudev. |
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There will always be a |
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> "poppyseed linux" whose purpose in life seems to be to preserve linux |
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> without sysfs or some other obscure practice. |
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no, more like special uses. you're framing the issue based on your |
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notion of "mainstream" |
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I just think that |
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> Gentoo should offer the choice to do those things, but have a more |
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> mainstream set of defaults. |
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i don't care about the order of the virtual, that was other people's |
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issues. i'm responding to bad arguments. |
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> |
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>> |
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>> it needs to be in the new stage4s to make a bootable system. imo a |
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>> stage4 should be bootable modulo a kernel. |
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>> |
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> |
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> Sure, a stage4 based on systemd makes a lot of sense. |
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not for embedded and the things i work on. these have users. |
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> |
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> I think that offering an eudev-based distro as a default just doesn't |
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> make sense in 2016. |
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because you have a limited sense of usefulness |
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> |
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> When these sorts of debates come up it seems like: |
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> 1. People express their preference. |
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no, its not a preference. its the right tool for the right job. when |
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something needs systemd, you use that, when something needs eudev you |
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use that. |
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> 2. People get offended when others express a different preference. |
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all the vitriolic attacks i get about eudev come from the gentoo |
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community. outside of this community i get praise. |
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> 3. People say "it's just a default" as if that is a reason that |
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> others shouldn't object to their own preference. |
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the arguments based on "preference" and "mainstream" are fallacious. |
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-- |
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Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. |
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Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] |
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E-Mail : blueness@g.o |
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GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA |
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GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA |
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