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Chris Reffett posted on Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:08:39 -0500 as excerpted: |
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>> To keep in power it's in your deepest interest to close the open gates |
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>> that invite competition while the power is in your hands. |
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>> PortageQOS is small step, it's not everything or main part of the |
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>> system, it's a just small contribution. But it will close the door and |
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>> you'll have another peaceful 8 years to rule. |
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>> |
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> Right here is the big problem: you're not looking at this from the |
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> perspective of the average Gentoo developer. We don't care about market |
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> share. We don't care whether we're on top for another few years. There |
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> are several forks of Gentoo. I doubt most devs care about them. |
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Agreed with Chris. |
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@ Igor: |
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Closed... open. You clearly don't seem to get it. |
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There's a reason it's called "open source", contrasting favorably with |
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"closed source". You're seriously pushing deliberately closing the door |
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on people's choice? That's typical closed-source methology, and what |
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many FLOSS folks would consider the antithesis of the entire reason they |
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do what they do. And that's your sales point, to a community-based open- |
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source-based distro, not to some closed source company like MS? |
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If Gentoo dies, well, rest in peace, Gentoo, it was good while it lasted, |
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but people moved on to something that suited their needs better. |
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That's the whole point. If people are more comfortable with a binary |
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distro, there's lots of them available, and many gentoo users and devs |
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are even happy to take some time to listen to what a user needs and make |
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the best recommendation they can about a distro that fits that need. If |
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people want a distro that's near as expert level and with near the choice |
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of gentoo, but don't want to /always/ have to build /everything/ from |
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source, Arch Linux is over that way, or if you want to stick with the |
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general gentoo idea but want a few tweaks, Funtoo's over that way, and |
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Sabayon is over there. And if they want to go full-out and build |
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/everything/ from source without gentoo's automated framework, well, |
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Linux from Scratch is right over yonder too! |
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The thing is, we don't see this as a game where if those distros win, we |
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lose, or if we win, they lose. Instead, we're different players on the |
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same team, and if we can helpfully direct users their way that are more |
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comfortable with them than with us, great, and we'll hope they'll do the |
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same with people who might be more comfortable here, too, but we're not |
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making that a condition of our directing people we know will be more |
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comfortable there to them. |
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Similarly, we're on the same team when it comes to patches. No distro or |
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their developers/maintainers want the *FULL* burden of supporting all |
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those packages, and if Gentoo devs can find a Fedora or Debian patch that |
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solves a problem we too have, or if we came up with a patch first that |
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solves a problem they're having too, great, have at it! |
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And in all that, if Gentoo's former devs and users all end up on Arch or |
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LFS instead, as I said, rest in peace, Gentoo, it was good having known |
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you, but your time appears to have been up, and others took your place. |
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But you're talking deliberately closing doors and walling in users so |
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they don't switch, instead of happily pointing them at distros they'd |
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obviously be more comfortable with. WTF is that sort of attitude doing |
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here in free/libre and open source in the first place? That's more the |
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walled garden Apple or MS approach, not FLOSS. |
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Meanwhile, you might try googling Zynot. That was one early, perhaps the |
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first, Gentoo fork. Such talk of cutthroat competition in a zero-sum |
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game, of deliberately cutting off user options so they'd be forced to |
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stick with you, of it can be us or them, not both, etc, was exactly the |
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sort of thing they tried. That was 2002/2003 or so. While the events |
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and acrimony surrounding that did ultimately drive Gentoo's founder |
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(Daniel Robbins) elsewhere, Gentoo survived (thanks in part to drobbins' |
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efforts to secure a good future for it even at heavy personal cost to |
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himself and his family as he was already in the process of leaving). |
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Gentoo's still here, but where is zynot today? |
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I remember back in early 2004 as I was researching my switch to gentoo, |
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reading up on zynot, which was at that time still a going concern, and |
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repeatedly asking myself as I read the essays from zynot's founder |
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heavily criticizing gentoo and its founder, why can't he see what's |
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happening, that every single thing he's negatively pointing at in gentoo |
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and drobbins he and zynot are doing themselves in far greater measure, |
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and why he was so stuck on closed source competitive techniques in an |
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open source world. His very essays, supposedly criticizing gentoo, |
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instead ended up convincing me more than ever that gentoo was /exactly/ |
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the right choice for me. =:^) |
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And... gentoo's still here, but where is zynot, today? I think I made |
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the right choice then, and I'm still convinced it was then and remains |
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now, the right choice, for me, today. =:^) |
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But if gentoo dies as a result of following those policies, well, it |
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dies, and I, and other gentoo users and devs, will find something else to |
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replace it. But gentoo didn't die when zynot was saying those things |
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(ultimately, zynot did), and pardon me for saying so, but I don't see it |
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dieing now, when you're saying them. Instead, the risk of death is if we |
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belief and follow them now, just as it was then. |
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |