Gentoo Archives: gentoo-devrel

From: Mike Doty <kingtaco@g.o>
To: gentoo-devrel@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-devrel] devrel meeting etc
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 04:16:33
In Reply to: [gentoo-devrel] devrel meeting etc by Deedra Waters
Hash: SHA1

Deedra Waters wrote:
| All,
| Most of you if not all know why i've been so absent over the past
| several weeks. Now that things are settling back down, I want to revisit
| the old topic of how devrel handles complaints etc. I've got 1 major
| change that i would like to make to the devrel policy for how complaints
| are handled.
| A lot of people have told me after the fact that having seperate
| judicial and investigative branches make things too complicated and the
| end result is too much red tape. Some disagree and think that things
| won't/aren't too complicated.
| Here's what i want to do.
|  Basically, for the most part, the transparency of how complaints are
|  handled stays the same. The only thing i really want to change, is that
|  i think that a commitee of say 3 to 5 people handles a complaint from
|  beginning to end. Basically, i think that this is much simpler, and the
|  devrel members i've mentioned it to seem to like this idea. The big
|  thing for most people is that what ever happens, the transparency needs
|  to stay, and i completely  agree there.
|  So, 1. I'd like to see some discussion over the next couple of days to
|  get feedback, and 2. I'd like to shoot for 1800 UTC on friday for a
|  meeting.
|  Thoughts?
|  Deedra
The following are reasons why the proposal is not a good fit for devrel.
The concepts put forth are all based on legal systems that exist in some
government, US, EU, or whatever.  Now, we have 300 developers working in
gentoo.  compare that to the 300,000,000 people living in the US.  what
are the odds that a person who *supposedly* commits a crime knows and/or
has affected the judge trying the case?  It approaches ZERO.  In the
rare case that this does happen, a new judge is appointed, or a mistrial
is declared.

Why does this matter?  Due to the numbers, It's almost a certainty that
the judge hasn't had any interaction with the accused.  In theory, this
allows him to be impartial.(we all know this frequently isn't true in

Now, consider how a judiciary board in a large organization handles
things.  Chances are, they have had interaction with said accused, and
they act upon that information that they allready have, along with any
new facts that may pertain to the "crime."  They certainly arn't
impartial.  The only thing that prevents it from being "unfair" is the
fact that there is a panel, and not one person making the decision.

So, with that said, what are we closer to? A large country, or a large
organization.  I'd say the latter, and I'm sure if people weren't trying
to berate Deedras idea they would agree.

About the proposal that was adopted a couple of months ago:  It's a
great idea in theory.  If we ever grew to numbers exceeding 10,000, I
would be inclined to think it may even work.  However, as it stands, it
has accomplished 2 things, one good and one bad.  First, it put into
place a structure where one "evil fucking devrel member" couldn't punish
another.  Secondly, it makes devrel ineffective as the judicial body in
gentoo, because everyone would rather work on something more rewarding
than be forced to wade through the red tape the the proposal calls for.

In the end, I've read 20+ emails today on this thread, which we at best
"I don't like this", and at worst, "devrel is a conspiracy!", yet no one
has offered a solution.  Put up or shut up.  My recommendation would be
to merge the two groups, by expanding the panel of "judges" from 3-5 to
5-7.  This cuts out a lot of the red tape and improves communication
while still retaining a similar number of people involved.

Disclaimer:  I didn't actually bother to look up a)the number of devs,
b) the number of people living in the US; so please don't nitpick on
those points.
- --
Mike Doty                           kingtaco@g.o
Gentoo/AMD64 Strategic Lead         PGP Key: 0xA797C7A7
Gentoo Developer Relations
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Re: [gentoo-devrel] devrel meeting etc Aron Griffis <agriffis@g.o>