Re: [gentoo-project] Why should you *not* vote on existing Council members

[Michał Górny]

On Mon, 2019-06-17 at 13:41 +0200, Thomas Deutschmann wrote:
> In general, we already have the mantra, "No discussion during meeting"
> (for topics from mailing list).
>
> So regarding agenda items you added (topic 3 & 5):
>
> These topics were already discussed on mailing list so they should NOT
> require discussion during meeting. Therefore you did NOT receive an
> additional invitation like antarus received for topic 4 where I asked
> him to participate to report status.

I agree this would be the ideal state.  But as already pointed out
previously (and it's not just me saying that), the current Council
as well as past Councils didn't follow this rule through, and repeatedly
it was necessary for posters to attend meetings in order to avoid
proposals being deferred for months because of Council's inability
to resolve their concerns before the meetings.

In order words, you're saying that I shouldn't need to be invited yet
more than once my presence turned out to be necessary.

> > >
> > If nothing was decided, then why did he suddenly become able to commit?
> > Again, as I said in the other reply, if you cause something to happen
> > it's a change, even if you don't formally decide it.  Especially when
> > you afterwards publicly admit that he wasn't able to commit before this
> > secret meeting.
>
> Really? Are you still on your crusade against NP-hardass? I really hoped
> you get the closing statement from
> (https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20190512-summary.txt
> 6a), something which happened for the first time in council history.

I would really appreciate if you were able to address the topic at hand
rather than trying to deflect this into an ad hominem.  There is no such
crusade and there never were.  It is sad that Council has taken that
bait and rather than trying to professionally look at the issue tried to
portray themselves as some kind of saviors of tormented developers.

> > If nothing was decided, then why did he suddenly become able to commit?
>
> Where do you see commits from him?
>
> If there is a commit from him (=where he is set as committer and have
> signed the push) *after* GLEP 76 was enforced I assume that he did so in
> compliance with GLEP 76 like any other Gentoo developer.

I see commits authored by him.  Similarly to what I asked during
the meeting, I'd appreciate if we discussed this civilly on topic rather
than deflecting by playing with meanings of words.

> You are lacking humanity.

Do you really think that's an appropriate way to offend Gentoo
developers from a Council member, on a topic that's strictly related to
Council business?

Besides, everything else related to NP-Hardass is entirely off-topic
here.  I could have accused Council of failing to behave professionally,
ignoring existing project policies with no effort to improve them,
refuting non-existing decisions that wouldn't have been made
in the first place, etc.  But that's an emotional topic and I chose not
to.  Therefore, I'd appreciate if you also stayed on topic and didn't
try to reflect accusations by trying to present me as some inhumane
monster eating developers for breakfast and Council members for dinner.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny