| 1 |
Kent Fredric wrote: |
| 2 |
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 23:20:45 -0500 |
| 3 |
> Dale <rdalek1967@×××××.com> wrote: |
| 4 |
> |
| 5 |
>> I'm not trolling. I'm asking questions and giving ideas on some |
| 6 |
>> things that could be done better and making personal observations to |
| 7 |
>> back up my thinking. |
| 8 |
> Yeah ... this .... is what I was afraid would happen :) |
| 9 |
> |
| 10 |
> But its been a popular "technique" I've seen since ~2012 wherein people |
| 11 |
> who find other people who they can't reach an agreement with are deemed |
| 12 |
> "trolls", not because they *are* trolls, but because one of the parties |
| 13 |
> gets so emotionally frustrated by the arguments presented, that they |
| 14 |
> perceive the stubborn refusal to "see things my way" to be a deliberate |
| 15 |
> attempt at causing chaos ;) |
| 16 |
> |
| 17 |
> I mean, "they disagree with me, I'm the fountain of knowledge on this |
| 18 |
> planet and I can never be wrong, so they must know this, and are |
| 19 |
> disagreeing with me just to make me unhappy" |
| 20 |
> |
| 21 |
> Orrr something like that :) |
| 22 |
> |
| 23 |
> I've taken to countering by assuming when somebody calls me a troll, |
| 24 |
> that they're saying "you're right, because I don't have the patience to |
| 25 |
> prove you wrong". ( Its probably a little disingenuous, but no more |
| 26 |
> than calling everyone you disagree with a troll ) |
| 27 |
|
| 28 |
|
| 29 |
If you or Matthias would like to join in and discuss this issue, I'd be |
| 30 |
more than willing to do so with you both and Rich. I use Gentoo and I |
| 31 |
like it. It is rare that I post on lists like -project BUT, when I do, |
| 32 |
it is because I'm trying to help. I'm not active generally on anything |
| 33 |
outside -user but when I see something that needs discussing, especially |
| 34 |
when a non-developer might could offer a new/different perspective, then |
| 35 |
I engage. I'm not trying to put anyone in a bad position, including |
| 36 |
Rich who I've conversed with on -user. |
| 37 |
|
| 38 |
It's not that we disagree, it's that I get the impression that some |
| 39 |
don't see the problem or just think ignoring it will help fix it. The |
| 40 |
biggest thing that bothers me on this, the person who put in all that |
| 41 |
effort and didn't accomplish anything. It wasn't because he did |
| 42 |
anything incorrectly, didn't work with others or follow the process to |
| 43 |
get the work done. It's because Gentoo couldn't even accept the help |
| 44 |
someone was offering and that Gentoo needs more of in the future. Then |
| 45 |
on top of that, he was disappointed and basically left hanging out in |
| 46 |
the breeze with little explanation. All that before anyone posted |
| 47 |
anything else. Then on top of that, when someone does post a |
| 48 |
explanation, they get into trouble. It was handled badly and then it |
| 49 |
went downhill from there. The second part that bothers me, someone |
| 50 |
trying to give some truthful information getting punished as if lying |
| 51 |
would be a better option or just ignoring the other person further would |
| 52 |
help make it better. |
| 53 |
|
| 54 |
The point I would like to see in a reply is that something should have |
| 55 |
been done differently. Someone should be involved that can post a |
| 56 |
response, since no one liked Williams, that explains the situation and |
| 57 |
why all that work would not get to where it was intended to go, which |
| 58 |
would be the portage tree it seems. I would hope that whoever does that |
| 59 |
can do it in a way that doesn't lead to a person being "incredibly |
| 60 |
disappointed" and most likely not wanting to be involved with Gentoo in |
| 61 |
the future. I suspect that would be a rather large task on the last |
| 62 |
part. It is possible and certainly trying is better than ignoring the |
| 63 |
person. |
| 64 |
|
| 65 |
For all the talk of needing more people, well, Gentoo has likely lost a |
| 66 |
future person. Maybe it can be corrected but if nothing changes, then |
| 67 |
it won't be corrected and regretfully, it will likely happen again. |
| 68 |
Posting about this and trying to find a solution is not the problem. |
| 69 |
Changing something in the process so that it doesn't happen again and |
| 70 |
lead to someone else being handled the same way, that does help and |
| 71 |
could lead to a much better outcome. Hopefully, it would leave a person |
| 72 |
willing to help again in the future. We may never know what was just |
| 73 |
lost for the future of Gentoo. What say we recognize the problem and |
| 74 |
try to change something to make it work better? |
| 75 |
|
| 76 |
Dale |
| 77 |
|
| 78 |
:-) :-) |
Archives