Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Trying to become a Gentoo Developer again spanning 8 years...

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

On Monday, October 3, 2016 2:04:42 PM EDT Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 12:20 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
>
> > That has been part of my problem. I disagree with such questions, the
> > answers, so can get hung up on those questions on the quiz. Why one
> > review took 2 hours and did not max it past the 10th question on the 1st
> > of 3 quizzes.
> Your agreement with the question isn't really the concern.  Your
> understanding of the correct answer, and willingness to comply with it
> is.

I disagree with the correct answers. These are not technical questions but 
social. I disagree with much of how Gentoo is structured. I also question if 
returning developers should even be wasting time on portions of the quizzes 
that are non-technical. I doubt people would have forgot such. If anything 
they may have different views such as me from having been involved and if 
anything to involved and to knowledgeable.
 
If I had no experience or knowledge, answer the questions to what is the 
expected correct answer would be easy. But I disagree with the correct answer, 
out of both experience and knowledge.

> There are Gentoo policies I personally disagree with.  I still comply
> with these policies.  If I didn't comply with policy I'd expect to be
> called out on it.  If policies are bad they can be changed, and I have
> more of a say in that than most, but it isn't like I can just make the
> policies anything I want them to be.

If I can change code from the outside. Then I can change/effect policies just 
the same, no? Must I be a developer to change Gentoo policies?

> If the mentor didn't think you would work out, you wouldn't even be
> talking to the recruiters.

Then why does comrel require to see things from a contributor the mentor has 
already?

Its basically says, yes your are the mentoring developer, but we do not trust 
you that this person is ready to be a developer. So we will put our own 
requirements onto this person. Who despite you working with them, and your 
awareness of their recent actions. Since we/comrel are not aware of this 
persons contributions, because we have not done any research. Nor do we trust 
the mentor that this person is ready to become a developer.

> It wasn't any different when I joined Gentoo.  I had two mentors and a
> recruiter, and while the process with the recruiter was somewhat
> redundant, it wasn't particularly onerous.

Things were very different when I joined in 2006. If they had been how they 
have since 2006, I doubt I would have ever become a developer. I have seen the 
process become much worse since 2006. The fact that there has been no Java 
team since ~2008-2010 is evidence of such.

> > Where does the mentor come into play? Are they not vouching for the
> > individual?
>
> I'm sure their words carry weight, but they may not be aware of
> whatever issues Comrel has, and they may have different priorities.

Could that not be said about comrel? Comrel likely has much less awareness of 
any given recruit than mentors. Comrel is not working them as a mentor would. 
In my experience Comrel has NEVER had any knowledge or awareness of my 
contributions.

If they did, they would realize what they are doing, and how they are holding 
Gentoo back. They would have an idea of the scope of work. None work in Gentoo 
Java, or touch any of that. They have no appreciation for what all it takes, 
much less amount of work. Nor any contributions from people seeking to become 
developers.

They have always asked me for what I already did before they asked. They never 
bothered to go look. Or even talk to the mentors most times....

> Ultimately if you want to rejoin Gentoo you're going to have to
> convince either Comrel or the Council that you're not going to create
> trouble.

I do not think anyone can assure that. At the same time, how many years does 
Gentoo want to go with areas like Java being neglected? Beyond technical it 
seems this also effected the Gentoo's status with the IRS. Something I would 
have corrected years ago, like the other things I accomplished very quickly. 
That had not been done in years till I came along. It is not of any surprise 
nothing has happened since 2008 with the IRS.

Not saying anything negative toward Trustees since I resigned, either that I 
served with or since. I simply had a unique set of skills that was beneficial.

In reality Gentoo could have much worse problems by not being straight with 
the IRS. If that was ever the case, and if someone say me could have corrected 
that. Then comrel/devrel could be directly responsible for some major legal 
issues regarding Gentoo.

If the technical stuff is not enough to make you think. Java on Gentoo not 
moving forward much since 2008. Then the situation with Gentoo and the IRS 
should make you take noticed immediately!

>
> You would need to ask the developers you want to commit it for you.
> It sounds like a few have spoken up in the thread about being
> interested in Java contributions, so I'm sure they'd be willing to
> work with you to commit any ebuilds you provide.

Because there is not anyone...

They have been working with me, but they are moving on and limited on time. 
What is it others do not understand about that? Before a few came along it was 
much worse. Chewi is looking to move to Games, and Java is back to suffering 
since. Even with Chewi, monsieurp, fordfrog, myself and others. Java was still 
suffering in 2015 and 2016. Now it is back to now one being able to commit the 
work.

Again go hang out around Gentoo Java. See nothing going on for a long period 
of time. How is anything supposed to get done where there is no one to do the 
work? I can submit PRs, open bugs, etc for days. It will all just rot as there 
is NO one to commit the work?

Should I said it again? There is NO one to commit Java contributions. There is 
no Gentoo Java Team....

Should I repeat again? Even Chewi/James Le Cruirot said it himself. Yet no one 
is listening, and people keep saying go contribute.

Contribute to whom? Who will commit the work? Who wants to proxy my entire 
overlay, 98 ebuilds in dev-java alone much less others. Say it takes 1 minute 
per commit. That is close to 2 hours of nothing but proxying.

That is a VERY small amount of what needs to be done...

> That doesn't surprise me, and nobody is against having more Java devs.
> Or more Gentoo recruiters for that matter (there have been calls for
> more people to volunteer to help with that as well.  In the end we're
> a volunteer-based or and we need to work with what we have, but that
> doesn't mean we don't need the Code of Conduct, because that just
> drives away a lot of other people.

What is being done to get new Java Devs? Why has there been no team since 
2008-2010?

Who was responsible for the Java Team in the first place?

Fact is, I brought on more Java devs within my 2 years of being a dev than has 
ever happened for Gentoo Java. After I left, it is of no surprise the team 
fell apart. I had organized monthly meetings, and we had an active thriving 
team.

None liked what happened to me on the foundation side. Comrel destroyed the 
Java Team. Say what you will about me, but fact is I attract others. For 
anyone who assumes people do not want to work with me. Even more actually do, 
they just are not aware of such.

One of my main goals if I ever got back into Java is to rebuild the team. This 
is a much bigger issue than just me returning to Gentoo. The amount of benefits 
and work to be done would be substantial. Gentoo stands to benefit way more 
than I would ever. Just the same Gentoo stands to lose out much worse.

What if I got Gentoo squared with the IRS years ago, not to mention Java being 
current, and things like Hadoop, Jenkins and others being packaged from 
source. Along with Enterprise Java Containers, Glassfish, Wildfly, and TomEE...

Your telling me it was good Comrel/devrel drove me away and that Java has 
suffered not to mention the IRS status?

That is a pretty hard case to sell to anyone based on those facts.

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.