Re: [gentoo-project] Comrel Improvements: Expectations of Privacy

[Raymond Jennings]

On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 12:12 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. 
<wlt-ml@××××××.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 3, 2016 11:49:19 AM EDT Raymond Jennings wrote:
>
>>  In my personal opinion, you should have appealed your -nfp ban
>> through
>>  proper channels.  Evading a posting ban of any sort is a serious
>>  offense.  I've learned the hard way elsewhere that whether you are
>>  banned fairly or not, defying the ban is an automatic wrong.
>
> It was not done correctly. I was not notified of the ban, only found
> out when a
> post was rejected. The ban ended up being permanent not temporary per
> policy.

This is important contextual information to include.  Have you included 
this in your appeal?

> Not to mention it takes some nerve to ban a just resigned Trustee
> from a
> Foundation list. That is pretty insulting. If you look at list
> archives. The
> list was dead before I stirred the pot, and then I get banned. Which
> it ended
> up mostly dying off again.
>
> At least in my case, devrel nor comrel has ever followed their own
> published
> policies. I can prove that with just about every action they took, it
> is fact
> not opinion.

Then the council needs to be made aware of this.

>>  Its like getting kicked out of a sports bar for a totally bullshit
>>  reason, like being a fan of the wrong sports team or whatever.  But
>> no
>>  matter how mean or wrong the bouncer was, its still his bar, and if
>> you
>>  go back after you've been kicked out, the cops will, rightly, slap
>>  handcuffs on you and drag you to jail for trespassing.  The proper
>>  response is to contact the liquor board or the bar's owner and have
>> the
>>  errant bouncer dealt with (appeal).
>
> Please stop bringing up the concept of being kicked out. That was
> NEVER on the
> table. At no time was I at risk of being kicked out or booted.

I meant kicked out of the nfp list.  Sorry for not being specific :P

> The most I was facing was a 15 days suspension of no commits. I felt
> that was
> stupid, further insult after the insults to a just resigned Trustee,
> so I
> retired as a developer, against the recommendation and pleas from
> others.
>
> There is a big difference between someone voluntarily resigning, both
> as a
> Trustee and Developer. Than someone being kicked/removed from the
> project.
>
>>  That said, maybe comrel was a bit too heavy handed?  I don't know.
>> But
>>  if I were a comrel member myself, your post would have at a minimum
>>  earned you a formal reprimand for breaching a posting ban.
>
> The ban should never have been put into place. The one person who
> complained
> to devrel, regretted it after. Given what all devrel did, they did
> not want to
> see happen.

Since you have now included the context (that you were never notified 
of the ban), you were apparently the victim of bad communcation that 
accidentally set you up for a suspension you didn't actually earn.

With this in mind, I fully support an appeal!

> But again, you DO NOT ban a Foundation Trustee who just resigned from
> a
> foundation mailing list. You can go see my posts, they were not that
> bad. Also
> no action was taken against those harassing me. Because they were
> members of
> devrel....
>
> Members of devrel provoked me, caused me to get out of line, then
> took action
> after.
>
>>  A 15 day ban is a finite period of time, and also far shorter than 8
>>  years, so unless you're speaking of something beyond your 15 day ban
>>  (and you probably are), the math here isn't adding up.
>
> I objected to the 15 day ban. I gave them a choice, 15 days, or I can
> just
> resign. That was their choice just as much as mine. But ask yourself
> why the
> 15 days? For 1 post? Does that really make sense?

Not if you were never notified of your ban from nfp in the first place. 
 That turns this from a ban dodge to a simple accident.

Have you pointed this out in an appeal?

> But all that is in the past and moot. What is the end result? Java
> not moving
> forward on Gentoo since ~2008-2010, and not having all filings in
> order with
> the IRS. Those are 2 major issues.
>
> Even if the action against me was 100% justified, which it was not.
> The harm
> done to Gentoo is substantially grater than any harm they were
> seeking to
> protect Gentoo from. Many of those involved have moved on, while
> Gentoo
> suffers and I remain. The logic?
>
>>  And this is why I'm personally advocating for more recruiters.
>
> They are the gate keepers. They do not want more, its been this way
> for years.
>
> It is like going to Congress and having them pass terms and limits on
> themselves. If will never happen. Also while Council and Trustees are
> elected,
> Comrel/recruiting is not, and has no term limit. They can serve
> indefinitely,
> with little new blood, and tainting any new blood with past events.
>
> If nothing else, its likely both comrel and recruiting should be
> cycled out
> every so often. To ensure a clean slate, fresh views, etc.
>
> --
> William L. Thomson Jr.