Re: [gentoo-releng] USE flags and stages 1 and 2

[Michael Crute]

On 10/31/05, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky <znmeb@×××××××.net> wrote:
>
> Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> >I'm starting to get more and more bugs from users whom have decided,
> >against the recommendation of those of us in Release Engineering, to do
> >a stage1 or stage2 installation using their custom USE flags, and
> >finding that their installation is unable to complete properly. The
> >problem stems from more and more packages adding more and more USE
> >flags. We already recommend that all users perform a stage3
> >installation, but this doesn't appear to be enough to resolve the
> >problem. What it really boils down to is the inability for us to test
> >with all of the possible USE flag combinations and ever get a release
> >out the door.
> >
> >As it stands, I only see a few options, none of which sound very good:
> >
> >1. Only release stage3 tarballs
> >2. Inform users that only stage3 will be supported
> >3. Change the documentation to recommend users not change USE flags
> >until after the completion of "emerge -e system"
> >
> >In pretty much every case, the real answer is "quit using stage1 if you
> >don't know what you're doing" but unfortunately, we're going to get the
> >pointless "but Gentoo is about choice" "argument" that really has no
> >bearing on the truth of what is Gentoo. Gentoo is *not* about choice.
> >Gentoo is about empowering the user to make the system as he sees fit.
> >This means there is a certain expectation that when you start fiddling
> >with stuff, you're going to pick up the pieces on your own. At any
> >rate, the problem is only going to get worse as more and more USE flags
> >are added.
> >
> >What can we do to curb this problem?
>
>
> Well ... at one time, Gentoo *was* about choice, but it's evolved to
> being about quality IMHO. As long as you're willing to make all the
> stage3 tarballs required, I see no reason to continue to support stage1
> installs. The past couple of installs I did were stage1 -- I wanted to
> see how long it took, among other things. And I've never done a stage2
> ... I've never seen the point in it.
>
> So my recommendation would be to eliminate stage1 and stage2 and just do
> stage3 installs. They're a lot faster too -- I think getting through
> stage1, stage2 and stage3 took about 6 hours on a 1 GHz P3, hardly a
> productive use of time. I think you might want to put a few more goodies
> in stage3, though -- vim for sure, and niceties like ufed, esearch,
> slocate, genkernel and grub at a minimum. When I do an install, the
> things I *always* bring in, whether desktop or server are: [snip]
>

I REALLY dislike the idea of eliminating stage1 tarballs. I am personally
very picky about my system and what gets installed and from my point of view
installing from a stage3 is as bad as installing Fedora. Plus it would be a
real pain in the butt to have to go backwards, installing a bunch of stuff
up front and then going back by hand and removing it. I do share Ed's
sentiments about stage2 though, you could eliminate those as I don't see
much point to them. You either want it all or you want the bare minimum, I
want the bare minimum.

Another thought is release the tarballs but do not support anyone with
problems doing a stage1 install. If you are brave enough to attempt it, you
go it alone.

I think I've put in about $0.04 now ;)

-Mike

--
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"