[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo is so AWESOME

[Steven J. Long]

Nicolas Sebrecht wrote:
> Steven J. Long wrote:
>
> > Again you're wilfully misinterpreting what I've said, and answering a completely different
> > point. You didn't know the basics of how to go about approaching Gentoo.

> While I (and others BTW)

My point is simply this: there is a world of difference between someone who simply sends two
emails to the wrong place, a busy list that often has a lot of controversy on it, and someone
who actively helps out other users, files bugs, patches and new or updated ebuilds and knows
enough to be of use in #gentoo-dev-help.

FTR, I do not count myself amongst that latter group. I just know them when I see them; but
they're always known to gentoo folks already.

> was trying to provide an external POV with
> points to make outside contributions and rectruitement more efficient,

You've sold your tirades under that banner, yes. I'm not buying; as is prob'y clear.

> you guys @gentoo.org turned this thread into plain bullshits.

As has been pointed out, I am not @gentoo.org. Sorry for use of 'we' in that context: I was
perhaps reacting emotionally as well. Frankly I'd taken care to spell out exactly what I was
saying, and you just ignored the content, and reacted to the perceived insult.

> Starting with a statement like "Please note I'm not discussing any
> technical ability you may or may not have." does not allow you to make
> the exact opposite

Again: I was not discussing technical ability. Knowing the basics of how Gentoo operates is
not a technical challenge. So you're wrong: I never disparaged your technical ability as a
"developer".

Perhaps you should just take what people type at face value: it saves a lot of confusion.
Especially given the differences in language that occur; that was why I spelt it out.

> and being insulting or border-line in the rest of your mails.

I was being sarcastic in my last mail. Prior to that I was truly simply trying to explain,
where you'd gone wrong. Further, I spoke informally ("wtf did you expect?") since I assumed
you were comfortable with the informality that is pretty much par for the course on most
mailing-list and web-forums.

And I stand by that: if you don't do the groundwork, I have zero sympathy for you. Of much
more concern, and where the cultural shift needs to take place, are the people who do the
groundwork, and are proven useful to the community and the project, but never acknowledged.
Many of them have a decade or two of experience at least in Computing, and they'd be
valuable and productive members of the dev-team, as well as bringing some longer-term
perspective.

But I actually think this whole thread is a change in that direction: developers are
reaching out and asking for people to get involved, and engaging with those who have
already been doing that, as well as providing the basic info to those who haven't.

So in terms of Gentoo and the project we care about, things are getting better. IMO.

BTW everything I say is my opinion. I don't usually bother to qualify it, as it's obvious
imo.

> I don't remember I ever faced to such direct and personal
> judgments in the open source world.

Blimey, you have led a sheltered life. You'll grow a thicker-skin: you'd better if you intend
to do much in FLOSS.

But feel free to hate me: you won't be alone, and I have grown a thicker skin over the last
few years, so I'll cope.

> Oh, I know you pretend it's not.

No, I just think you take yourself too seriously. And you still haven't really sat down and
considered the points I made in my first mail, which you prefer to have restated in order to
ignore again, afaic.

> So, I'm on my way, dear, in order to:
> - learn how to approach a community (stuff that practically every user
>   knows);

And yet you didn't, nor did you bother to do much looking around on the websites. More
importantly, if you are intending to collaborate with a wider community, that believe me can
be an awful lot nastier than me, you *really* cannot handle that being pointed out. You might
want to work on that.

> - learn where to find the doc and read it;
> - learn all the basics;

Hallelujah. I look forward to your contributions on bugzilla, the forums, IRC and sunrise.

> - not magnify myself.
>
> Thank you for all the smart feedbacks. Obvisously, it was all about me.

You did make it all about you, yeah. And then took everything personally as an attack on you,
when two minutes' reflection (or a re-read) would have shown you that the basics were nothing
at all to do with coding, and everything to do with Gentoo processes.

> <F**k>
> I want to believe you don't embody the dominant POV of the Gentoo
> maintainers about the original topic.
> </>

I don't embody any official position on anything. However, from my experience, I think most
people would expect you, or anyone else, to have at least done some basic research about the
organisation they claim to want to join.

> I'm going serioulsy tired of this thread.

Me too. Repeating myself for the third time is really lame. So let's agree to kill it here,
since neither of wants to go on with it.

Don't let me put you off Gentoo: there's loads of much nicer people involved, and I'm nothing
to do with anything.

Just do your homework ;p

Oh, as a general point, I find it helps to take a break from the keyboard if you're annoyed
at what someone's said to you on a mailing-list (and on IRC.) What you shouldn't do is
respond immediately from your sense of outrage or anger (or w/e.) Come back to it and re-read
and first see whether there's another interpretation of the words, and as ever feel free to
pick someone up on what's been said. You're less likely to miss subtleties, and more likely
to keep it polite.

And FFS, who cares if "someone on the internet is wrong"?

Regards,
steveL.
-- 
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)