Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error

[Dale]

Bill Longman wrote:
> On 06/21/2010 01:23 PM, Dale wrote:
>
>>> The only thing that genkernel would add is your initrd. The kernel is
>>> exactly the same, whether you compile it with "make" or through
>>> "genkernel". Do a test and you'll see. (I'm assuming we're both talking
>>> about gentoo-sources, not vanilla-sources. Either way, they'd be the
>>> same.) Some might be confused about what happens in the steps if they
>>> haven't been down the "kernel compilation trail" more than once or
>>> twice, but for folks who just want to compile their kernel and plop it
>>> into place, along with a hands-off initrd, it's rather handy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> But only if it works.  When I compile my kernel, I KNOW for sure what is
>> in there.  When genkernel does one, especially on a new install, I have
>> no idea what is in it or what is not.  If something goes wrong, I don't
>> know where to start.  Is it a kernel problem or is it something else?
>> Who knows.  Then you have to go back and start from the bottom, usually
>> the kernel, and work your way back up to find out what is broken.
>>
> By "But only if it works," I assume the antecedent "it" refers to is a
> kernel that we're attempting to boot correctly. (In other words, you're
> not talking about genkernel failing to create a kernel for you. Is that
> correct?)
>
> If someone has trouble on an initial install, then that just means they
> didn't configure the kernel correctly, is what I interpret that to mean.
> The result of "make" and the result of "genkernel kernel" are exactly
> the same. If your "make menuconfig" creates an invalid .config file for
> you, no sort of magic is going to make its resultant kernel valid. Do
> you mean to say that you just grab a kernel, jump into the directory and
> say "make" without an mrproper and some sort of config? You do realize
> that genkernel has --menuconfig, --xconfig and --gconfig exactly for
> this purpose, don't you?
>
> What sort of things do you believe genkernel is adding to your kernel?
> If you use "genkernel --menuconfig --no-install kernel", you can look
> and see what it did. It's no different than running "make menuconfig"
> followed by a "make; make modules". Just look in /usr/share/genkernel at
> the gen_compile.sh and you'll see that it does a make.
>
>
>> Genkernel may work for you but that doesn't mean it does for everyone
>> else.  Should I mention hal here?  When someone comes for help, your
>> looking for the failure not the successes.  If it was sucessful, they
>> wouldn't need help.
>>
> Which is why I mentioned genkernel in the first place. Most times a hang
> after boot is due to components that were missed in the kernel build --
> from where? -- from a missing or incorrectly created initrd if the
> required modules weren't compiled into the kernel. The easiest way that
> I've seen is to use genkernel and get back to work. Then later on you
> can find out what an initrd is and why it's needed with modules but at
> least you'd have a running system.
>
> No, I don't think you should mention hal because it's probably OT for a
> thread about a hung boot. But you should apply to yourself a similar
> logic you ask of me: if others can use genkernel successfully, why can't I?
>
> Bill
>
>

I'm not saying you can't use it just that it doesn't always work.  Thing 
is, when someone uses genkernel to make the kernel, when someone asks 
'did you include some driver', the usual answer is 'I don't know, I used 
genkernel' and then nobody knows whether it is there or not.  If a 
person builds their own kernel, they usually know if it is there and 
better yet how to check and make sure it is there.   Also, I don't use 
initrd and not sure why most people need one.  I don't use modules 
either, hence the reason I don't need initrd.  Just build in the drivers 
and such that are needed to boot until the modules are loaded and that's 
it.  It's not rocket science.  Driver controller, file system that root 
uses and that's about it.

I haven't used genkernel in a while.  I have just seen where people have 
used it and it not work.  Same as hal.  It works for most but when it 
doesn't, no one can figure out why because few people know how the thing 
works and even fewer can figure out the config file.   That's not quite 
as off topic as it appears.

If you want to use genkernel, go for it.  I just know this, when someone 
asks for help that may be kernel related and they use genkernel, there 
is very very little help I can provide.  Some people here use genkernel 
but there are a lot that don't.  There is another thread posted a day or 
so ago where they used genkernel, no one has been able to help them 
yet.  Not one reply that I have seen.  I want to help but with 
genkernel, I have no idea where to start.  I'm sure it is a kernel issue 
but that's about it.  It appears that on one else can help either.  It's 
not like this is a small mailing list with few people on it.

It's your choice.  Use whatever makes you happy and gets you where you 
want to go.

Dale

:-)  :-)