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On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 11:47:40 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote: |
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> > > I would say all packages in @system _are_ needed, unless the user |
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> > > explicitly says otherwise. |
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> |
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> > They are, @system is a set of packages and nothing it it will be |
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> > depcleaned. However, openrc is not part of @system, the virtual is. |
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> |
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> Ah, that's it. So we have critical system packages which aren't part of |
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> @system. I think openrc is a critical system package. |
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openrc is not necessarily critical, just some sort of service manager. |
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that's the whole point of a virtual, to handle different use cases and |
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requirements. |
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> > That is possible, but it is also possible that this is entirely down |
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> > to you installing things outside of portage and handling their |
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> > dependencies manually, creating unwanted side-effects like this. |
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> |
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> Quite the contrary. If I'd've stuck to the daemontools I installed from |
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> a tarball, this whole thing wouldn't have happened. It's BECAUSE I |
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> switched to using the portage version that this danger reared its ugly |
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> head. |
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My point is that you are mixing portage and non-portage packages, that's |
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why portage is getting confused. I don't know much about daemontools, but |
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it seems the sort of package that should not be in @world, but only |
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installed as a dependency of something else. |
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I'm nit suggesting that you should avoid non-portage packages, that may |
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be impossible or undesirable, but you should be aware of possible |
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consequences. When I need portage to install dependencies to a |
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non-portage package, I generally create a set for them, so you could |
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create qmail-deps containing both daemontools and openrc and emerge it. |
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Then you are safe from either being depcleaned. If you ever decide to |
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stop using qmail, you can just unmerge the set and let portage clean up. |
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> > > Maybe the answer is to regard --depclean as a tool for experts only, |
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> > > since it is capable in ordinary innocent use of rendering a system |
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> > > unusable. |
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> |
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> > I feel it's more a case of Gentoo being a system for those that |
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> > understand what they are doing with the system - with great power |
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> > comes great responsibility and all that. |
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> |
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> That feels needlessly patronising, Neil. I fear the Gentoo maintainers |
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> will take the same attitude. Not only can the user shoot himself in the |
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> foot, but it's Gentoo that provides the gun, innocently wrapped, with a |
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> "press here" direction on the packaging above a hidden trigger. Nobody |
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> accepts any responsibility for preventing accidents. |
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It wasn't meant to be patronising, but you should be aware of what is |
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going on. In this case you were because although portage suggested |
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removing openrc, you sensibly declined the offer. |
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> The implication of what you say is that nobody should use portage |
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> without understanding every last intricate detail of it. This doesn't |
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> feel reasonable. |
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No, but it is a system that demands a greater level of understanding from |
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its users than, say, apt or rpm. |
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> Nobody but me seems to see anything wrong with all this. It's one thing |
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> saying users should look after themselves, but surely it's quite another |
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> thing to provide an obsure mechanism where one's one keypress away from |
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> destroying ones system. |
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You could cripple it but not destroy it. It would not be nice, but you |
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can recover from the accidental removal of openrc or even python. |
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Fortunately, you don't have to find out exactly how not nice :) |
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-- |
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Neil Bothwick |
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|
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- How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? |
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- Two: one to hold the giraffe, the other to fill the bathtub with |
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lots of brightly colored machine tools. |