Re: [gentoo-user] kernel 3.8 and external drivers

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am 12.03.2013 12:51, schrieb Yuri K. Shatroff:
> On 12.03.2013 14:44, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:30:57 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
>>>> not "has to be easy", but definitely, with such purpose.
>>>> Do you disagree? Perhaps you reckon that the whole purpose of
>>>> computing is to make life harder? :)
>>>
>>> You know, this general topic rears it's head about every six months.
>>> The
>>> answer never changes:
>>>
>>> Gentoo is what it is, it works a certain way for a reason. Maybe you
>>> like it, maybe you don't. Either way that is not going to change
>>> anytime
>>> soon. What you could do is pitch in and do all the same heavy lifting
>>> that our long-term devs have done, and be the change you want to see in
>>> the world.
>>>
>>> That might involve dealing with the protestations of the existing devs
>>> though and they will likely quote the "Gentoo is what it is" line.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you file  bug report with a patch to the ebuild
>> that checks the running kernel version and outputs an elog message of
>> "you might want to try the in-kernel drivers". They may simply say
>> "thank
>> you".
>
> The starting point has to be someone identifying the problem.
> When you come e.g. to a car service and say, 'my engine is not working
> properly e.g. ignition fails or sort of', do you expect the mechanic
> to answer, 'hell why are you coming to me? you know the problem, c'mon
> fix it yourself'?

no, because I am going to pay a shitload of money. See the difference?
Nobody is paying me to hang around on this list. A list that is full
with threads about problems that are:

occuring every odd month, so a little search would have answered the
question

obvious user errors

caused by stupid behaviour
or
easily fixable with a little bit of thinking and/or using google.

Bonus points: people being pissy if pointed out.

At some point you have three choices dealing with this:
go away, because the shit isn't worth it anymore

swallow it, show your nicest smile and go on in the hope that someday
somebody might grow up

become an asshole.

I have chosen option number three. I admit it freely. There are very few
people on this list whose opinion I really care about. Those people
earned my respect. So why staying and act like this? Because sometimes
people are ok. Sometimes there are good threads. Because some people do
see the pattern. Others realize that a bit of own research means a lot
of time saved. Their own time. Learning something. Stuff like that. Btw,
Daniel? cool reaction. I liked that.

> Or even more of it, 'your car is what it is, you wanna drive -- buy a
> limousine for a couple hundred grands'?

you are proposing that. 'Oh, this car needs manual intervention and some
thinking. Mod your car to turn it into Carbuntu! It will do everything
for you! Even driving! And breaking!*

*except in icy conditions or raining. There will be no warning.

> Yes, you can expect that a gentoo user is more familiar with the
> things but you can't expect everyone capable of everything.
> And clearly, there are people who'd do it better than an average
> gentoo user.
>
>> This is not a unique situation, there are other out of tree drivers that
>> give such a message, and plenty more that don't. All it needs is for
>> someone to take the time to fix it - rather than demanding that someone
>> else fixes it for them.
>
> Yes, that's it -- if you can't do it yourself, just inform someone who
> has the time and ability to fix it. And no profound discussions about
> what gentoo is and what it is not. Because (it's my humble opinion of
> course) he who discusses the most does the least.
>
have a look at the checks in ati or nvidia drivers, create a suitable
patch for every other driver. Not that hard. If you want to do it.

I don't. Seriously.