Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 21:09:38 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

> 'evening, Neil.

> > It's evolution. Linux has for years been moving in this direction,
> > now it has reached the point where the Gentoo devs can no longer
> > devote the increasing time needed to support what has now become an
> > edge case.
>
> That's precisely the sort of patronising comment I was complaining of in
> my previous paragraph.

In what way is it patronising?

> It isn't "evolution".  It has been a decision of
> somebody to move it.  Who?

It hasn't been a single decision. The situation has been developing for
some time, with each distro making its own decision. Most other distros
made the decision some time ago, The Gentoo devs have only recently
agreed that supporting that particular setup (separate /usr without an
initramfs) was not a good use of their time. The important point is it is
their time and therefore their decision.

> > > No, this breaking of separate /usr was done by some specific
> > > project, some specific person, even, in a supreme display of
> > > incompetence, malice, or arrogance.  How come this project and this
> > > person have managed to maintain such a low profile?  There seems to
> > > have been some sort of conspiracy to do this breakage in secret,
> > > each member of the coven pushing the plot until the damage was
> > > irrevocable.  Who was it?
>
> > So which was it, one specific person or a coven of conspirators? This
> > is open source, secret conspiracies don't really work well. If this
> > really was such a bad move, do you really think the likes of Greg K-H
> > would not have stepped in? Or is he a conspirator too?
>
> I know not how many people were involved.  Don't you think it noteworthy
> that we on this group first learnt of the change when it had already
> happened?  I have no idea whether people like GK-H would have been aware
> of it either.

I think that is entirely the right time to learn of it. If you want to
know about the devs' discussions before reaching the decision, you
should read gentoo-dev. Until then it was a dev issue, now it is being
implemented it is a user issue.

> > > "Only"?  ONLY???  You say that as though creating an initramfs were
> > > a trifle, trivial, and of no moment.
>
> > For an Ubuntu user, maybe that's true? For someone that feels
> > comfortable compiling their own kernel and configuring the entire
> > system by hand, running dracut or genkernel should not be too
> > demanding. Even creating your own initramfs is hardly rocket science.
>
> It may or may not be demanding for any particular administrator.  It is
> undoubtedly tedious and time consuming.

I disagree, but then I have actually tried doing it.

> > > Until, after some update, it reminds you of its presence by not
> > > booting your machine.  That's the sort of excitement I can do
> > > without.
>
> > Do you have any examples of this actually happening? Not "I heard a
> > bloke down the pub talking about a mate of a mate who broke his
> > system with an initramfs" but actual documented examples of how this
> > can occur in normal use.
>
> There have been several times in the past few years when precisely that
> could have happened in Gentoo - the updating of the Baselayout in 2011,
> the various shenanigans with udev, for example.

"Could have happened", I'll take that as a "no".

This whole discussion reminds me of a conversation I had with a senior
SUSE engineer earlier this year, someone of a similar age to myself. His
comment was along the lines of "I remember when Linux users wanted the
latest bleeding edge, now they complain every time something changes".


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance from Mom.