[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's future directtion ?

[James]

Rich Freeman <rich0 <at> gentoo.org> writes:


> > The reason I jumped into this thread is that someone had problems with
> > the java project. I'm not sure, but maybe something is wrong with
> > my eyes?


Your eyes are fine. Gmane's web interface was hosed. I tried to use
nntp (earlybird) but that interface does not consistently respond 
to the thread, so hacking at the settings and posting(tests) seems
to upset some.....

I appreciate your ideas, I mostly like the ideas of distributed development
for non "core" modules. I also believe and Rich as articulated, that 
we mostly have thing now. Where I diagree with Rich is this. Sure,
If somebody has been a gentoo dev for years, has push access
then they can get coding completed.  If you are new to the depths
of what gentoo devs do, then it is opaque as to which docs to read,
dealing with the technical details that are currently used and which
are either not documented or poorly documented, etc etc. It's not
that any of the devs have a desire to keep folks from becoming deeply
capable devs such as themselves, it that these "elites" spend very
little time, paving a path for others "fledgling devs"; so the
the cost barrier to gaining inside (current) knowledge is very him,
imho. Most will just drift to anothe distro where that sort of help
is more redily available.  Thank god for SVEN. But, he cannot clean
up the myriad of docs that need tlc. What you do not seem to "comprehend"
Rich, is what most non super_devs want is some help, imho. Just look
back at your harsh postings on java. It's rather crushing for folks
that want to use Java. Quite simply, I'm developing the skills to
use java on gentoo. Those keen developers within the java team, are
spread very thin; just look at what they are recruiting for:


http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Gentoo/Staffing_Needs


So I understand that you are not interested in Java. So, how do
we find or develop a "gentoo-inner-circle-java-interested" dev?
With out that java does not have a chance to gain traction within
gentoo, imho. OK, so dont beat me up for being lazy (stupid as
volker points out routinely) just *help me* via private email
who at Gentoo is the java wizard?  I'll do tons of grunt work
to make then happy.?  OK?

Oh shit: problem one. Go clean up BGO's java bugs. I cant because
it has become a circular cluster_F!.  Too many old blocking bugs;
nobody (who gives a shit) with the authority to purge java bugs.



> And my point was that the only problem I see with Java is that nobody
> is actually working on it.  If nobody works on distributed java
> repositories, it will be just as bad.

Rich, there are billions of Java codes, available in source form
that can easily have ebuilds created. But we have poor support 
for maven, etc. So they go nowhere. (I believe a gentoo-dev for 
maven is the blocker here. I know that Maven is not easy. I am
not (yet) close to being qualified to work on deep maven issues
withing gentoo.


> My specific request was WHO is trying to do something to improve Java
> and finding a policy that is preventing them from doing so, and WHAT
> policy is causing the problem?

see details above?



> It is easy to talk about vague problems.  It is harder to actually
> pinpoint specific issues that can actually be fixed.
> Please don't take this as a personal attack - I generally have a lot
> of respect for you.  I just don't think that this is a helpful way of
> approaching these problems.


Ah, I think Hasufell has very good intentions and some keen ideas.
My fear is java is getting not love from the gentoo innner circle.
So we reduce the innner circle dev count, move java to the perimeter
(where nobody cares that is remotely connected to the inner-circle)
and java get's better?  I've seen this sort of thing thousands of
times in my life. Java will just be purged from Gentoo, reticent on
your previous postings about your feelings towards Java.


Another council member in 2013 was all encouraging about gentoo-clustering.
But now that clustering is mostly java centric (imho), few at 
Gentoo care about cluster on gentoo. Convenient. Sad. Not really
encourage to the fledgling community that are willing to work on
java, but need leadership.


I put (2) ebuilds into BGO. apache-mesos and apache-spark. 
bugs 510912 and 523412. There they languish.

Following the outside overlay semantic guidance, newer versions are here,
thanks to Alec:

https://github.com/trozamon/overlay/tree/master/sys-cluster

So as you point out, go and work on what you want. Really? You think
they'll get move to the gentoo tree any time soon? I'm mostly  looking
for help, encouragement and guidance. I am not looking for harsh
reponses that are discouraging. I am not trying to harash you, I appreciate
what you do for Gentoo, very much. I get you are not interested in
anything remotely connected to java. I would appreciated your keen
insight into finding us a java leader that is not burnt to a crisp
by the gentoo-stress-burnout syndrome that seems to surging, again.


If you want java to prosper at Gentoo, it's gonna take an "inner-circle"
gentoo-dev to at least cheerlead for java within gentoo, imho.


hth,
James