Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am 17.09.2014 um 23:03 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> <volkerarmin@××××××××××.com> wrote:
>> Am 17.09.2014 um 21:52 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
>>> <volkerarmin@××××××××××.com> wrote:
>>>> Am 17.09.2014 um 21:02 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
>>>>> <volkerarmin@××××××××××.com> wrote:
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>> Now you use this to advertise for systemd?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Systemd fanbois are becoming more and more desperate.
>>>>> So, systemd is used (or it has been announced that is going to be
>>>>> used) by default in all the major distributions, is available and
>>>>> working great in Gentoo, and many Gentoo users and developers use it
>>>>> happily.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, yeah, we are *really* desperate, obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the laugh.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>> you will stop laughing when redhat&poettering abandon systemd because it
>>>> is 'fundamentally broken' and must be replaced with something else.
>>>>
>>>> Probably as soon as everybody got used to it.
>>>>
>>>> And if I guess correctly, pulseaudio will be the driving force behind
>>>> it. Because history loves repetition.
>>> Sure Volker, whatever you say. I'm willing to bet the future stability
>>> of my desktop and server machines that your doomsday-scenario will not
>>> happen. Actually, I'm already betting on it.
>>>
>>> What are you willing to bet?
>>>
>>> Again, thanks for the laughs. You are a funny guy.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>> I am not betting anything.
> I figured it.
>
>> But I want you to think about something:
>>
>> devfs was the best thing since sliced bread.
>> As soon as everybody used it, it was broken and replaced.
>>
>> hal was the best thing since sliced bread.
>> As soon as everybody used it, it was broken and abandoned.
>>
>> *kit?
>> The same.
> Yeah. So it happened with XFree86, aRts, esd, gnome-vfs, DCOP,
> sendmail, and it will happen again with dbus (I'm willing to bet it
> will be replaced, at least in Linux, with kdbus). And, BTW, it's
> happening with SysV being replaced in Linux with systemd.
>
> It happens all the time. It's a good thing. And it happened for *VERY*
> different reasons in each case. Also, the transition has been
> sometimes somewhat difficult (HAL comes to mind), but most of the
> times really easy: we used devfs when I switched to Gentoo more than
> 10 years ago, and I don't remember being difficult the switch to udev.
> XFree86 => X.org was also basically trivial.
>
> Of course systemd can be replaced; if something cooler gets written,
> we'll switch to it. But given the team behind systemd, and the design
> it has, it's gonna be very difficult.
>
> Using Linus words, you are making excuses. You can compare systemd to
> HAL, but doing so only shows that you don't know the code, the design,
> and the history behind both projects.
>
> Regards.

there was no breakage with xfree-to-xorg. True. But hal, yes. No upower
breakage. *kit breakage. The list is too long to ignore.

Arts was not something whole systems depended upon. And whatever
gnome-thingy you depend upon, you are fucked, because those guys are
infected with the same mindset. As soon as the bugs are ironed out and
everybody is using it: abandom it for something else.

That has nothing to do with 'improvement', or 'development' it is just
stupid.

AFAIR dcop was replaced, because of the freedesktop-gnome guys. Not
because anything was wrong with it. And look where it got us. No
improvement at all.