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On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:09:04 -0700 |
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Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@g.o> wrote: |
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> On 19:06 Wed 11 Mar , Thilo Bangert wrote: |
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> > > > the presumption seems to be, that as a dev one has to be |
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> > > > available via IRC. it has long been my feeling that Gentoo as a |
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> > > > project could realize more of its potential by better |
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> > > > integrating people who dont do IRC. |
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> |
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> I think IRC helps to build a more tightly knit community and, because |
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> of this, is very important to Gentoo. The less close we are as a |
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> community, the more free we feel to be hostile because we don't see |
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> the folks on the other end of the big tube as real people. It's much |
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> like a technique that militaries use during wars to de-personalize |
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> the enemy, except with the Internet, we start that way and have to |
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> apply effort to grow closer. |
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> |
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This is an interesting point you raise, though I don't think it applies in this case. |
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I believe, rather, that the issue is the 'community' appears more like a 'cabal' when the discussions take place on #IRC and therefore aren't available in public archives. |
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Even if they are, an IRC log is a *terrible* way to document an issue. |
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Since the discussion is Re: '*DEVS* on IRC', I think the problem should be clear: |
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You all get more closely knit, perhaps, yet appear to do more *in secret*. There is *no way* to find out what is going on, without becoming part of the problem... by asking, or lurking, on IRC. This is bad. |
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Example? After months of searching for a reason, after seeing many apparently random updates to a previously stable tree of perl modules, I happen to keep an IRC session log which shows with this FSCKING USEFUL TIDBIT: |
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"... no motivated developers. the perl team completely vanished." |
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Anyone considering using Gentoo should KNOW that, if they use perl in any substantive way. Wouldn't you agree? |
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Now, why isn't there a discussion about this on the gentoo-perl mailing list? Not even a post from some DEV with a cry for HELP? If there's a problem, *who* is doing *what* to address it, and *where*? |
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Oh, right, there's *some* discussion on IRC... |
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Anyway, it's just one example. In this case, I'd be glad to see *some* documentation of the (apparent total) collapse of the 'perl team' and what is being proposed to fix the problem, *without* having to become part of the cabal. |
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Since there is a mailing list dedicated for discussions of perl and gentoo, that seems the most logical place to air the dirty laundry and announce/discuss the plan for moving forward. IMO. |
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Cheers, |
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-- |
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|\ /| | | ~ ~ |
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| \/ | |---| `|` ? |
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| |ichael | |iggins \^ / |
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michael.higgins[at]evolone[dot]org |