Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo's problems

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:11:49 +0000 George Prowse <cokehabit@×××××.com>
wrote:
> > If you think that that's all a package manager should do, you have a
> > serious lack of imagination. Most users need or would heavily
> > benefit from far more. See http://ciaranm.org/show_post/95 for some
> > modest ideas that have turned out to be useful.
> >
> All well and good (and I agree that those would be nice) but none
> that today's average Gentoo user is going to notice as a "major
> visible improvement". --depclean has improved dramatically so the
> --uninstall will be just another way of doing it.

I think you're massively underestimating the requirements of the
average user, what with the tree as complex as it is these days. Most
users now:

* Have to use external repositories
* Have to handle at least some keywording overrides themselves
* Have to have some way of managing huge metapackages
* Have closer to a thousand than a hundred installed packages
* Aren't involved in development work
* Expect their systems to work

These are very different use cases than those for which Portage was
designed.

> > * Uninstalling a package along with its now-unused dependencies
> > * Uninstalling a package along with everything depending upon it
>
> Yup, i agree with you there, --depclean seem to be mostly working
> properly so that is not so much of a problem but
> --uninstall-with-deps would be great

depclean is something else. It's much broader in its impact. It has its
uses, but the correct tool is not always a hammer.

> >>> Sunrise is the canonical example. Also consider the way the forums
> >>> are being run (like it or not, the forums are taken by many to be
> >>> representative of Gentoo's user base)...
> >>>
> >>>
> >> It seems to most that the forums is the only part of Gentoo that
> >> is - and always has been - running smoothly
> >>
> >
> > Smoothly is not productively or effectively.
> But they do it VERY productively and effectively - look how fast they
> ban the troublemakers and trolls. Maybe they should control the
> lists...?

And look at how much development work goes on there. If the forum mods
were in charge, reporting QA violations would get the reporter banned
for a "personal attack" and "trolling".

> Methinks you should "sheath your swords for lack of argument" on this
> one (Henry V - Act 3 Scene 1)

So now you're quoting Shakespeare as an argument?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                                 : http://ciaranm.org/
Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/