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On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Brian Dolbec <dolsen@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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> Why must it become yet another shouting match. And I'm sorry to have to |
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> tell you this, but you have been leading the charge in that direction. |
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> |
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Fair enough. I'll admit that this has been a lot of venting for me, |
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and an unnecessary distraction for everybody else. |
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Ulm's post and discussion with xiaomiao on #gentoo-dev have made me |
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reconsider my attitude towards this. |
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The reality is that this change really only impacts non-systemd users, |
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so the question really should be what provides the best experience for |
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these users. I think there are legitimate arguments for either udev |
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or eudev from that standpoint, but I think we need to view them |
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through the lens of what is better for those who would prefer not to |
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use systemd (and that isn't limited to openrc, though I don't know |
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that this distinction matters). For those who prefer to use systemd |
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it is a moot point. |
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To ulm's point virtual/dev-manager probably should be a part of |
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@system (even if the provider is only the minimal static device nodes) |
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- a posix system really isn't usable without anything in /dev. |
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Whichever provider is the default for that virtual might be a good |
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topic of discussion, but it is not a true dependency for this |
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decision, and I should not make it into one. |
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I still think we'd be well-served to get service managers out of |
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@system as well - another good topic of discussion, but again not a |
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true dependency for this decision. |
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Gentoo is and has always been about choice. That is something I will |
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always support. |
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Personally this has been an area of frustration for me. I get that |
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many have come to Gentoo as a refuge from systemd (as well as other |
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things). I think it is a good thing that we can offer them that |
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choice, and I've always supported eudev having a home in Gentoo for |
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that reason. |
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However, I really do think that systemd largely represents the future |
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for linux distros. It will of course evolve over time, and perhaps |
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some day it will be replaced, but I think that what it changes into is |
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going to look a lot more like systemd than the things that came |
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before. I don't think we really do ourselves a service by clinging to |
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the old ways, and I don't think avoiding systemd as either a default |
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or a recommended configuration really improves our reputation or the |
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user experience. |
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And that is the frustration that caused me to lash out a bit on this |
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topic. However, this really isn't appropriate. This isn't holding |
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back systemd, and doesn't really have anything to do with systemd at |
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all. This is about making Gentoo better for people who have made the |
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choice not to use systemd, and that isn't something any of us should |
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be holding back. If I want to make things better for systemd users |
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there are plenty of areas that I could better invest this energy. |
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So, thanks for bearing with me. |
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-- |
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Rich |