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Dnia 8 października 2015 14:58:14 CEST, "Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@g.o> napisał(a): |
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>On 10/8/15 8:42 AM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: |
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>> Hello all, |
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>> |
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>> On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:45:10 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: |
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>>> The second issue that may need Council's attention is developers' |
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>>> attitude towards pull request source via GitHub. |
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>>> |
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>>> One and a half month since enabling it, we already had almost 150 |
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>pull |
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>>> requests from Gentoo users (and a few Gentoo developers who use this |
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>as |
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>>> a collaboration tool). Sadly, some developers not only refuse to use |
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>>> GitHub (which is an acceptable choice) but also have very negative |
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>>> attitude towards users submitting pull requests and the developers |
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>>> helping with them. |
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>>> |
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>>> The point is, if we want users to submit pull requests, we should be |
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>>> handling them. Then we can't really agree on some developer refusing |
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>to |
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>>> look at the request, and requesting the user to re-send it some |
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>other, |
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>>> less convenient way. Or another developer just silently ignoring |
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>every |
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>>> request and rudely responding to pings. |
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>>> |
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>>> Since the amount of work necessary to proxy between users |
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>>> and developers who refuse to use GitHub is huge, I have prepared |
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>>> a script that opens Bugzilla bugs for GitHub pull requests |
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>>> and bidirectionally copies comments between them, therefore allowing |
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>>> Gentoo developers to handle pull requests via Bugzilla at their |
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>>> convenience. However, it is currently waiting for review and |
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>approval |
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>>> by Robin before it will get deployed. |
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>>> |
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>>> But even then, I need to make sure the developers will actually use |
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>it |
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>>> politely. Developers can't really close those bugs 'because it's |
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>>> GitHub', or 'attach a patch', or 'duplicate of #nnnnnn' (because |
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>>> it's a synced bug, it can't be magically coerced into existing bug). |
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>>> In fact, I mailed bug-wranglers about this already but I got no |
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>reply. |
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>> I'd like to ask the Council to consider pros and cons of this issue |
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>> with extreme care. Benefits and dangers of the integration with the |
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>> proprietary GitHub service were discussed many times already, |
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>> starting from [1]. |
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>> |
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>> While the GitHub integration allows to receive a bit more |
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>> contributions, it contains long-term dangers of the Gentoo Social |
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>> Contract violation and loosing independence of the infrastructure |
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>> and the development workflow itself. |
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>> |
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>> I propose that we should draw a line which should not be crossed to |
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>> satisfy both the Social Contract and freedom of people to use |
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>> whatever tools they want, including GitHub. As a first approximation |
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>> I suggest the following: |
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>> |
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>> All connections with external infrastructure should be done in a |
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>> such way, that in case this external infrastructure will instantly |
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>> and permanently disappear, we should not loss any valuable data |
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>> and metadata, including commits, commit history, discussions, |
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>> patches, issues, bug reports and so on. |
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> |
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>Thanks for this language Andrew. It reflects my concerns and I can |
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>support it in the council. |
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> |
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>> |
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>> As far as I understand Mgorny's proposal, it implies that pull |
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>> request issues and patches will be mirrored on bugzilla, but not |
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>> patches themselves. In my opinion this is not acceptable, since |
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>> violates both the Social Contract (by dependence on propietary |
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>> metadata, such as GitHub issues (and pull request is a special type |
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>> of issue on GitHub)) and Bugzilla's policy of having all patches |
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>> attached to the Bugzilla. |
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> |
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>I'm hopeful that Michal will be able to figure out a technical |
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>solution. |
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> |
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>I have one situation where I wanted a user to post his patches to our |
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>bugzilla for discussions but he did not. As a result I was unable to |
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>discuss them on our bugzilla, nor commit them in their current state. |
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>I |
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>could have discussed them on github but I did not want to create a long |
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> |
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>discussion history there, since that's supposed to be on bugzilla. So |
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> |
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|
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|
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I see a few problems with that: |
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|
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1. Should we create separate patches for each commit? If we don't, we discard history. |
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2. Should we attach the patches separately or tar them? The latter is inconvenient, the former can create a lot of patches. |
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|
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3. Each update implies mass obsoleting of all patches. |
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4. Bugzilla has attachment size limit that we'd have to account for. |
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|
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Now imagine a pull request doing mass fixing. Git can handle that with ease. For bugzie it will be a serious mess. |
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Potential alternative is to back-mirror pull requests in git.gentoo.org and work on that. But that's likely to cause even more uproar. |
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|
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>> |
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>> I honestly do not understand why developers should be forced to |
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>> violate the Social contract under the excuse of "being polite" to |
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>> GitHub contributors nor why such actions should be allowed at all. |
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>There may be a technical solution where we can mirror pull requests, |
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>bugs and patches on bugzilla. |
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> |
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>As a side note, this approach to pushing through agendas by creating |
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>situations where its easier to accept a "solution" rather than reject |
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>it |
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>is not going to work in Gentoo. We have lots of smart people that see |
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>through this. If we wind up being "impolite" to our users, the blame |
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>belongs to those who created that situation in the first place, not to |
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>the council. The Social Contract is correct and I'm not going to |
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>support anything that violates it. |
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> |
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>> |
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>> [1] |
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>> |
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>https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/27e8b99db6fcd2654fc2548a605f0b70 |
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>> |
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>> Best regards, |
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>> Andrew Savchenko |
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|
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-- |
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Best regards, |
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Michał Górny |