Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo still on the right path?

[Derek Tracy]

On 11/16/05, Daniel da Veiga <danieldaveiga@×××××.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/16/05, Derek Tracy <tracyde@×××××.com> wrote:
> > This is a lot longer than I originally intended it to be so if you want
> the
> > jist of it skip to the end.
> >
> > (DISCLAIMER: Let me start off by saying that this is truly not a flame
> but
> > more of a concern. So please do not flame me for stating my
> > opinions/concerns.)
>
> Guess you won't get any flames, just considerable advices, cause we
> don't wanna loose a Gentooer :)
>
> > I have been an avid Gentoo User for 2 and 1/2 years now. I have
> installed
> > Gentoo on many different platforms including HPPA and Sparc, not too
> mention
> > the countless x86 installs. I have never had a problem, every install
> has
> > went smooth. I have done both Stage3 and Stage1 installs (I have always
> > preferred a Stage1 install).
> >
> > Recently, I decided that it was time to reinstall due to the numerous
> > packages that I had installed and different DE's / WM configurations,
> and I
> > must admit that I have recently been diving into LVM2 and encryption (I
> > figured that starting from scratch would be my best bet). In the past I
> > have always leaned toward ~x86 (I love bleeding edge). But since this
> was
> > going to be a new install I decided to do the preferred method and set
> all
> > ~x86 flags via /etc/portage/package.keywords for specific packages.
>
> I would never even consider completely reinstall a working
> environment, specially one that installation and configuration is 90%
> of the work you'll ever have dealing with the machine (except maybe
> for hardware failures).



The biggest reason for the reinstall was because in my contant playing
around with DE's and WM's trying to find one that I completely liked. I had
KDE, GNOME, E17, FVWM, OpenBOX (I think that is it) all on my system. In all
of my toying around I found out a lot about myself, for 1 GUI applications
make me work slower and FVWM was and is all I need to make me happy. So I
could either unemerge KDE GNOME and the rest (which would surely leave all
sorts of unneeded libs and things) or I could reinstall. To me
reinstallation sounded a lot easier. Also note that this is the first time
that I have had a really hard time getting Gentoo to work. (I will most
likely never reinstall on this machine again.)

> Now since we have the background we will get to the questions at hand.
> > During this install I have run into nothing but problems. I boot from
> the
> > livecd just fine (if I append nopcmcia and dolvm2) and everything goes
> > smooth. NOTE: I am performing this install step by step from the online
> > handbook with a slight modification I am using LVM2 for /usr
> /usr/portage
> > /opt /var /tmp /home (I figured I would take advantage of some setuid
> > security procedures). Part way through the online handbook I noticed
> that
> > they standardized the Stage3 install. I figured that since the
> developers
> > thought it was best to use a Stage3 install then why not give it a shot.
> So
> > I installed everything according to the handbook and all went well until
> I
> > restarted.
>
> You see, I'm one of those guys that think: "if you got the livecd
> working, network, maybe video, sound or anything else with NO DISC,
> your system is gentooable". :) of course you may run into problems
> accourding to your config and special needs, it always happened to me,
> but hey, at least you know what you're doying, not like those easy,
> complete, fast and general installations that keeps LOTS of trash
> making your system crawl compared to a clean, wise and configurated
> environment.
>
> > After restarting I noticed that ipw2200 did not load properly was posted
> in
> > my boot mesg WTF. I distinctly remembered during the install that I
> waited
> > until after I installed the kernel, then I went ahead and installed the
> > external modules. (NOTE: I did not use the built in kernel modules for
> > ipw2200 or ieee80211 I had read too many horror stories about
> incompatible
> > versions of ipw2200-firmware and I have always had good luck with the
> > external drivers) One other thing, instead of going for pure on the edge
> > goodness of using a Nitro-esque kernel (one optimized for speed over
> > stability) I decided to use Gentoo-sources again trusting the developers
> > judgement. After searching through tons of articles regarding ipw2200
> > drivers not working with the latest "Stable" Gentoo-Sources I decided to
> go
> > with the kernel drivers and give them a shot. I recompiled rebooted and
> low
> > and behold the drivers still weren't working. After trying all sorts of
> > different combinations Unstable versions of this stable versions of
> that.
> > Nothing worked, so I proceeded to reboot back into the livecd and
> re-chroot
> > into my system so I could get a network connection and install the
> Madwifi
> > Drivers, for a pcmcia card that I have laying around. Also note that the
> > Madwifi drivers are considered Unstable. I rebooted the computer and the
> > drivers actually worked (Yea Unstable). So I got the network connection
> up,
> > then I decided to go ahead and install X (I thought that it would be
> easier
> > to troubleshoot the ipw drivers from a graphical environment copy,
> paste,
> > multiple xterms.). Well I compiled and installed Xorg and compiled and
> > installed nvidia-kernel nvidia-glx, and what do you think happened (btw
> I
> > copied over a backed up xorg.conf from the last installation so I know
> that
> > that conf file works and is correct) I went to startx...........It
> kicked
> > back saying screens were found but no usable configs......So down
> > troubleshooting lane I went. I recompiled, verified I did not have
> agpgart
> > / dri enabled in kernel, then with both in kernel, stable and unstable
> > versions of nvidia-kernel / nvidia-glx, everything a no go.. I finally
> > settled with using Xorg's nv driver. Now here I am with a really nice
> > laptop (Sony S-460) but with no video hardware acceleration, the
> inablility
> > to use the built in wireless card (NOTE: before the reinstall everything
> was
> > working).
> >
> > So now I am waiting for the whole system to recompile using ~x86 (the so
> > called "Unstable" packages) and I will see if that works or not.
>
> I'm a stable user, so, would never do that, can't predict what can go
> wrong...


That is what I was thinking when I switched to stable..... From what I am
seeing either my computer doesn't like stable code or stable does not mean
stable anymore.

> I am seriously reconsidering finding another OS to use, this whole
> headache
> > has been totally ridiculous. I could see this if I would have emerged
> all
> > of the unstable packages to begin with or even perform a Stage1 install
> > after the developers decided to make the Stage3 the default. But I
> didn't I
> > did everything according to the documentation (and I triple checked that
> I
> > did not skip anything).
>
> Well, Gentoo is choices, you can even choose not to use it, but it was
> always the best choice for everything Linux I've needed so far... OK,
> so, I spent a week configuration my last system install, but its
> working for about 3 months now, flawless, it was worth the time spent.
> At home, it took me a month to completely setup the system, including
> Xorg and Desktop Manager, well, nine or so months flawless, my memory
> was gone bad, my CD drive broke, and still, my system OS is up-to-date
> and running. Never got nothing like this with any OS I've tried.
>
> > So with all of this said if the developers do not start testing
> everything a
> > little more thoroughly then I predict there will be a serious drop in
> the
> > number of Gentoo Followers out there. Especially if a Gentoo Veteren has
> > this hard of a time installing the operating system that I love.
>
> I can sincerely disagree with you. And that's why I have spread the
> word and made a lot of friends start working with gentoo, most of them
> liked it and are spreading the word. Of course, installing gentoo is a
> time consuming task, configuring it is even more time consuming, but
> hey, that's a small price to pay for complete control over your
> system.
>
> > When a branch is marked stable all of the packages in that branch should
> > work, yes there will always be configuration glitches but the problems I
> > have had during this install were not from configuration glitches. They
> are
> > what looks like incompatible packages and numerous other things. If
> Gentoo
> > is going to continue to grow then we as a community need to speak up
> about
> > things like this.
>
> Testing is hard work, I would not blame the Gentoo Team for this,
> there are infinite combinations of hardware, software and configs that
> may cause different problems, and if you want a working system that is
> flawless, fast and reliable, you give up some good stuff from other
> OSs, like easy installs, easy hardware replacement, easy
> configuration.


I would definately agree with you if I was installing things that are out of
the ordinary. But I am not it is merely a system install by the handbook
(which was written by developers).

This is just my 2 cents, many people will disagree, but I won't change
> my OS for a long time, Gentoo rocks, and small changes (like stage1
> for stage3 default install) won't harm me that much, I choose installs
> depending on hardware and network availability, not just because one
> is faster or default. I'm even considering Gentoo compatibility when
> buying new hardware for my systems, and advicing my fellows at work to
> do the same, if Gentoo runs it, to hell with the rest.
>
> > --
> > ---------------------------------
> > Derek Tracy
> > tracyde@×××××.com
> > ---------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel da Veiga
> Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
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--
---------------------------------
Derek Tracy
tracyde@×××××.com
---------------------------------